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Author Topic:  Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0  (Read 22834 times)

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Craig

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4060 on: October 16, 2014, 11:43:01 PM »

Observable evidence is everywhere even in science and the logical design of even the simplest of organisms through the diversity of life... It's amazing so many are so blind to it.
I have thought about this many times over the years, and it is probably the single most important concept that leads me to reject the idea of a Creator. The size, diversity, natural beauty, natural horror of the universe is so vast, so awesome, so beautiful, yet so careless, so unforgiving, that it could only be created naturally.

Also the fact that the slice of time in which life can subsist in this universe is infinitesimally small compared to the projected time the universe will exist. It makes no sense to consciously create such a universe, considering it is only life observing the universe that makes it worthwhile. Unless the Creator gets his kicks watching a lifeless universe slowly die over an incomprehensible length of time.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 12:04:43 AM by Craig »

Not Actually Atlas

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4061 on: October 17, 2014, 01:26:29 AM »
I have thought about this many times over the years, and it is probably the single most important concept that leads me to reject the idea of a Creator. The size, diversity, natural beauty, natural horror of the universe is so vast, so awesome, so beautiful, yet so careless, so unforgiving, that it could only be created naturally.

Also the fact that the slice of time in which life can subsist in this universe is infinitesimally small compared to the projected time the universe will exist. It makes no sense to consciously create such a universe, considering it is only life observing the universe that makes it worthwhile. Unless the Creator gets his kicks watching a lifeless universe slowly die over an incomprehensible length of time.
or were some 2nd grade science project that the creator forgot about a long time ago.

now on a serious note... I agree with DB. It may not make sense to us that a creator would just make the universe, but at the same time what would we know about our creator? Does it have a sense of right and wrong? What are its goals? What is important to it? Do you have a pet? I have two dogs, and they do alot of things that have no rational justification from what I can see. Same thing with a cat I had when I was little. I know comparing pets to an intelligent designer is pointless, but I think that to really understand what the reason behind what something does is we would need information we don't have.


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Craig

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4062 on: October 17, 2014, 04:51:16 AM »
The nature of the universe is such that any number of countless cosmic events could obliterate the planet Earth or any other life supporting planets out there. Why design a universe with the (assumed) goal of nuturing life just to have that life blown away at random?

And closer to home, the amount of suffering in this world is vast. Far to vast to entertain the idea of a benign creator, imho.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2014, 08:16:05 AM by Craig »

BeardedSHROOMS

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4063 on: October 17, 2014, 06:43:43 AM »

And closer to home, the amount of suffering in this world is vast. Far to vast to entertain the idea of a benign creator, imho.


Craig

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4064 on: October 17, 2014, 09:27:19 AM »
Sixth,
“Leftover” body structures are not evidence for evolution.

I read recently the lense of the human eye (and I assume all other land animals) has properties that prove it must have belonged to an underwater animal at some point in the past.

If you believe only devolution is possible, how is it that mammals, in particular, higher mammals, have only existed in relatively recent time?

I think it's quite odd to believe that only life can create life. If life is simply a configuration or system of molecules, then given the right physical and chemical conditions, or conditions conducive to a system being created, then surely it is possible a system could be formed where there was no system before. Comparing this situation to flipping a coin also seems odd.

Agykoo

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4065 on: October 17, 2014, 09:27:45 AM »
The nature of the universe is such that any number of countless cosmic events could obliterate the planet Earth or any other life supporting planets out there. Why design a universe with the (assumed) goal of nuturing life just to have that life blown away at random?

And closer to home, the amount of suffering in this world is vast. Far to vast to entertain the idea of a benign creator, imho.

I think the idea of trying to understand/rationalise a being(s) that has the power to creait a universe, and put the idea into terms mer humans can understand............is a little silly ^_^
My point has finally been made ^_^ (viva la Agy!)

anywho

Under construction ^_^! (probably something spring/Doom Bee related XD) ^_^

Craig

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4066 on: October 17, 2014, 09:29:15 AM »
I think the idea of trying to understand/rationalise a being(s) that has the power to creait a universe, and put the idea into terms mer humans can understand............is a little silly ^_^
It's all we have.

Agykoo

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4067 on: October 17, 2014, 09:33:33 AM »


not sure a guy who thoguth all relguiuoions would be gone someday is the best person in the world to speak on the matters of reluguions.
My point has finally been made ^_^ (viva la Agy!)

anywho

Under construction ^_^! (probably something spring/Doom Bee related XD) ^_^

Agykoo

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4068 on: October 17, 2014, 09:34:06 AM »
My point has finally been made ^_^ (viva la Agy!)

anywho

Under construction ^_^! (probably something spring/Doom Bee related XD) ^_^

DiamondBack662

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Re: Saw this and wanted to share it 2.0
« Reply #4069 on: October 17, 2014, 03:04:25 PM »
Firstly I want to thank DB for finally giving us some meat to chew on, unlike the usual empty of substance tit for tat that goes on here.
I'm no expert on the 2 laws of Thermodynamics, but here is my 2 cents.

First law: Surely everything must come into existence at some point, including a Divine Creator. Even if it is before time started. Even if the initial creation of the universe is what started time itself. And even if it didn't, if everything has always existed, then in all practical consideration, it still doesn't change anything. So either way, The first law of thermodynamics doesn't prove either side correct.

Second law: My understanding of entropy, is that it is not a force or a property of the universe like for example heat. It is simply an effect. It is simply a mathematical probability (of overwhelming odds). The probability that the configuration of ordered matter and energy will eventually transform into an unordered or chaotic form, due to physical forces, is overwhelmingly in favor of unordered form simply because it has countless more variations. Obviously that does not mean that order cannot be created from disorder because we see order being created from disorder all around us, all the time.

And, in my understanding, it is the same with evolution. Evolution is not a force or property of the universe, it is simply an effect.

I can't understand why anybody would consider entropy as proof that evolution cannot exist or consider them as mutually exclusive. That is like saying order could never be created. Countless forms of order are created all across the universe every second. We see ordered form everywhere we look, and these forms were not created at the first moment in time. Even the stars themselves, they were created after the universe was created. If the same argument was to be applied, then the stars themselves could never be created, because entropy wouldn't allow it. Order is being constantly created from disorder by the universe. Sure this order will eventually succumb to entropy, but entropy does not stop it from being created, and existing for a time.

Thanks, I'm probably wasting my time trying to get some here to think about what they believe.
   I think as you get older you begin to question life and what it all means.. having raised children probably brings a lot more questions forward as well. I've found over time that good questions should always lead to new questions. A Quest for knowledge should always branch out like a tree rather than be a single lane highway.
   I by no means have all or even many answers as I'm still on my journey. I do, however, hate to see anyone blindly accept anything as fact without having a bigger picture. A much bigger picture.
   Taking blind faith in one theory of science is no better than blindly accepting a deity without some thought or research into all related areas. One should truly know for oneself what all the angles and all the pros and cons are. Most people I've found, regardless of belief of God or science, go into it with little regard for actual knowledge. The same can be said for those that offhandedly reject other lines of thought. Rather like only seeing one branch on a tree and pretending the other branches don't exist. Yet most people do that on a daily basis whether using science or God as the excuse.

That all being said, let me address one thought you had and address my thoughts on the matter.


"It makes no sense to consciously create such a universe, considering it is only life observing the universe that makes it worthwhile. Unless the Creator gets his kicks watching a lifeless universe slowly die over an incomprehensible length of time."

The biblical God created man in his own image we are told... that bares some thought as to what that truly means... It does not mean that we look like God Physically. That much is clear as God is not plant, animal or mineral.
So what are some characteristics of being human?
We are creative, we are destructive, We have the capacity for great love and of great anger. We have great curiosity and the capacity to learn over time. We also often have the desire to have offspring that we know we must let find there own way in the world. We offer as much guidance as we can in their early years... but ultimately we must allow them their free will and find their own way. We can't provide them all the answers, and understand that many things they must figure out on their own. They will trip and fall and get hurt, they will also have great triumphs And they will learn many valuable lessons.
Does this make us cruel that we bring life into this world where it might suffer and eventually will die? Or... do we also realize that perhaps there is a bit more to the experience of life?