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Dryym

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Re: Education
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2016, 07:29:38 AM »
In school, I learned to read, write, etc. The basics stuck with me, which I feel that makes elementary school a mandatory need.

Middle school is where they introduced me to history and science as special study areas. I passed history with 110% and science with 93%. All I remember is that the black plague was caused by rats and that scalpels are sharp.

With that being said, it was useless information to me and I don't feel that unless you plan to get a career in those areas, that they shouldn't be mandatory. History can teach us a lot, but there is so many things that we don't need to learn. Give us the main points and be done with it.

In middle school, I learned that woodshop, home economics, and art class was taken out because it was deemed "not necessary"...

...those were 3 classes that I would have loved. They would each have been more beneficial to me that science or history.

In highschool. Chemistry, statistics, advanced algebra, algebra 2, calculus, Spanish, biology, and earth science did me no good. I was good at math, now I remember maybe 10% of it. With a good portion of those being mandatory, it made it hard to focus on the subjects that I did good in or was interested in.

P.E., was graded as so. If you dressed in shorts of the school color and a t shirt, you get a "C". Period. Next, you get a "B" if you do that, and show up. You get an "A" if you participate. That did not teach me one thing, other than when you run a mile, don't sprint the first 2 laps.

Art class taught me what a medium is, shading, and color balance... Which I figured out on my own before I was 8. If applied right, art would be a great class. Instead, you get taught terms and stuff that doesn't make you a good artist. A good artist is made through practice.

Lastly, a vast majority of how effective the learning process is, is how it is presented. If you are a visual learner, you learn from seeing it done. Not reading a book. The teachers should be more into the subject that they are teaching. I had a chemistry teacher that blew stuff up every other day, kissed roaches, and had a real dino skeleton in his class. This guy was freaking cool, and he made it fun. That's how you learn. My Algebra 2 teacher played metal solos on his guitar during class and his lecture on vectors... Was about the gun "Vector" from CoD MW2.

The way the government thinks school should be ran is dead wrong.

This is exactly how I think of it.
They should focus on people retaining the information you give them, Not just giving it out.

It's a fact that people remember things better if they have a strong memory tied to it, That is why people often make up songs to remember things.


If teachers focused on retention, And making things fun, Then people would not only like school better, But they would actually learn things.


As for what you said about history, I disagree with teaching the main points.

By this I don't mean teach all of human history, I mean to teach the parts of history that you can learn from, And teach it right.

Especially teach the history that can be prevented from happening again.
We don't want more bloody civil wars, Do we?

You know the saying, If you don't learn from history, You're doomed to repeat it.

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Jared [19|Oct 07:12 PM]: "It changes everything" Dryym

RF In The Jet

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Re: Education
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2016, 08:14:57 AM »
The thing that annoys me the most often times is people blame teachers for student short comings. People think that is the teacher's fault their is not doing well, or didnt learn what they should have, but in reality it is the government.

Basically what is happening is if a student fails, the government will not want to fund that kid anymore. and if a teacher decides, "hey screw what the gov't thinks, I will still fail kids" the teacher will lose sections in his/her specialty. not able to teach your section? not able to teach. not able to teach? well there goes your income. Basically the Gov't has made it like failure=lowered income.

Now the universities are still saying, hey we can fail people, and with tuition costs we dont need to worry a lot about the gov't funding. But here's the thing, soon enough one or two universities will start to let things slide, lower their standards, and once they do - every one will. Why would a student go to a university that has a high failure rate, when they can go to one the has a great success rate. Soon it will become "where can I pass the easiest" as opposed to "where will i learn the most for my field".

The education system scares me, and we need a complete and total reform of the whole system to save it.
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Nefty

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Re: Education
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2016, 09:49:12 AM »


Been a while since this has been replied to, but no need to start a new topic when there is already one here.


My thoughts on the education system, at least in Canada (probably all of NA, I live close enough to the states to be affected by theyre education system) is that sk-12 is an absolute joke. The education system USED to be about learning and teaching students how to do their work. Teaching students how to manage their time, be responsible, work hard - now, all the education system system is doing is teach students how to cheat the system, and get through life with out doing anything to earn that success.

Teachers ARE NOT ALLOWED to fail students in grade/high school anymore. a student can not hand in any work all semester, not show up 35 times, do no work, and still pass because of the initiative education programs. The government has basically said students get their 12 (14) years of education, and that is it. they will not spend money on any more. Therefore, the teachers are forced to pass every student.

dont do work? doesnt matter, youll still pass. what does this teach the kids of this generation? There are kids in grade 12 who do not know what 16/2 is - i can tell you this from personal experience. Our education system only cares about money, and soon the kids going through it will be out in the real world, having jobs that they shouldnt.

Years ago high school had said F**K the rules, we are still going to fail kids, this is high school, kids can fail, it isnt grade school anymore. but theyve succumbed the gov'ts orders. Now Universities are the ones saying they wont stand down, but they will. soon enough theyll dumbdown the system too so anyone can pass.

Our education system has become about money, and not pure student education in its purity. it is depressing.


This is why our generation demands $15 minimum wage for a job that a computer could do. You get everything handed to you then expect that to continue. Why most of my arguments against poverty reside around education. Obviously not everyone is going to be the king of industry, and someone has to be at the bottom of the foodchain. But it's better to make a level playing field. Schools and the education system in general needs a massive overhaul.

Not Actually Atlas

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Re: Education
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2016, 11:32:35 AM »


Been a while since this has been replied to, but no need to start a new topic when there is already one here.


My thoughts on the education system, at least in Canada (probably all of NA, I live close enough to the states to be affected by theyre education system) is that sk-12 is an absolute joke. The education system USED to be about learning and teaching students how to do their work. Teaching students how to manage their time, be responsible, work hard - now, all the education system system is doing is teach students how to cheat the system, and get through life with out doing anything to earn that success.

Teachers ARE NOT ALLOWED to fail students in grade/high school anymore. a student can not hand in any work all semester, not show up 35 times, do no work, and still pass because of the initiative education programs. The government has basically said students get their 12 (14) years of education, and that is it. they will not spend money on any more. Therefore, the teachers are forced to pass every student.

dont do work? doesnt matter, youll still pass. what does this teach the kids of this generation? There are kids in grade 12 who do not know what 16/2 is - i can tell you this from personal experience. Our education system only cares about money, and soon the kids going through it will be out in the real world, having jobs that they shouldnt.

Years ago high school had said F**K the rules, we are still going to fail kids, this is high school, kids can fail, it isnt grade school anymore. but theyve succumbed the gov'ts orders. Now Universities are the ones saying they wont stand down, but they will. soon enough theyll dumbdown the system too so anyone can pass.

Our education system has become about money, and not pure student education in its purity. it is depressing.


This is why our generation demands $15 minimum wage for a job that a computer could do. You get everything handed to you then expect that to continue. Why most of my arguments against poverty reside around education. Obviously not everyone is going to be the king of industry, and someone has to be at the bottom of the foodchain. But it's better to make a level playing field. Schools and the education system in general needs a massive overhaul.
I guess it is too much to ask for a livable minium wage...

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/you-cant-rent-a-one-bedroom-apartment-anywhere-in-america-on-a-minimum-wage-job/

Even if the job can be done "by a computer" it isn't. It is being done by living, human beings who are just trying to get by. If you cannot afford to pay your employees a minimum wage, just have the blueberrying computer do it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 11:39:27 AM by Atlas Telamon »


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crazytater94

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Re: Education
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2016, 12:09:56 PM »
@dryym, when I said main points of history, I meant stuff like the Holocaust and the founding of your nation. Stuff you can learn from and it is necessary to know.

But stuff about a guy who ruled in Europe 300 years ago... Smitty something or other...

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Re: Education
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2016, 01:08:02 PM »
@dryym, when I said main points of history, I meant stuff like the Holocaust and the founding of your nation. Stuff you can learn from and it is necessary to know.

But stuff about a guy who ruled in Europe 300 years ago... Smitty something or other...
I still think most history is important. A class I took that I really thought was enlightening was Western Civilization. It taught about the the rise and fall of the Greek and roman empires, the way the countries that make up Europe were founded, and the birth and spread of Christianity, among other things. And although it isn't needed, learning about where alot of the ideas that run our daily lives comes from is very important imo.


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Dryym

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Re: Education
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2016, 01:17:08 PM »
@dryym, when I said main points of history, I meant stuff like the Holocaust and the founding of your nation. Stuff you can learn from and it is necessary to know.

But stuff about a guy who ruled in Europe 300 years ago... Smitty something or other...
I still think most history is important. A class I took that I really thought was enlightening was Western Civilization. It taught about the the rise and fall of the Greek and roman empires, the way the countries that make up Europe were founded, and the birth and spread of Christianity, among other things. And although it isn't needed, learning about where alot of the ideas that run our daily lives comes from is very important imo.

I think what tater is saying is that they should teach us the necessities, Those who enjoy history, Or the way they were taught history will want to further their knowledge.

Some things are nice to know, And may even teach you valuable life lessons, But it isn't all necessary.

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Jared [19|Oct 07:12 PM]: "It changes everything" Dryym

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Re: Education
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2016, 01:55:29 PM »
I also don't agree with the fact that you need a paper that says what you can do, in order for someone to want anything to do with you.

I can do any kind of art(and well) and I've done construction, yet I won't get hired for any of those unless I buy a paper with 4 years and $80,000+ that says I can.

From a hiring managers point of view, it makes sense that they want to make sure that you're as good as you say they are, and having experience and/or a degree can act as assurance. This applies to any job.


               

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Dryym

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Re: Education
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2016, 02:16:49 PM »
I also don't agree with the fact that you need a paper that says what you can do, in order for someone to want anything to do with you.

I can do any kind of art(and well) and I've done construction, yet I won't get hired for any of those unless I buy a paper with 4 years and $80,000+ that says I can.

From a hiring managers point of view, it makes sense that they want to make sure that you're as good as you say they are, and having experience and/or a degree can act as assurance. This applies to any job.

That would be true in normal circumstances, But as RF stated, Where he lives, And possibly many other places, Nobody will be failed in their education. So people would be getting a degree that really doesn't mean anything.

I agree with tater partially. You shouldn't NEED to have a degree to be able to have certain careers (Not talking about things like lawyers, Or doctors.) so long as it can be determined that you are qualified for the job.


However, If it is a job with plenty of qualified people lining up, Logically you wouldn't want to waste time making sure the guy without the degree is qualified, You'd just hire the best guy out of the guys with degrees.


But if a degree in basic education is becoming as meaningless as it seems, It doesn't even matter.

They will have to do a better job in making sure people are qualified anyway.

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Gary

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Re: Education
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2016, 06:15:02 PM »
@Drymm,

People can be failed in college where RF lives, and anywhere else. I think you misread his post. He was talking about high school and grade school.

As I said, experience is another consideration. If you lack one of the following (a degree, or practical experience) then you most likely won't be considered for a position at a job that requires skilled labor.

Also, there are plenty of jobs that don't require college degrees and pay a living wage, even out here in the Bay Area. It's just that these occupations are usually not favorable.


               

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