Author Topic:  Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul  (Read 5857 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nefty

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
  • Awards Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners Former MotM winners 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Youtube
    • Awards
  • Xbox: _______
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2016, 04:03:57 PM »
Oh my, to start off I didn't expect so many great responses! Ill be responding to everyone's consatructive comments on this post. Anyone who commented I agree or good post thank you!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now what if Dig deep and survival let us go to space XD Anyways good ideas ;)

Possibly, maybe a type of device needs to be crafted to reach a moon style map. Like how you need ender eyes for an ender portal.

I'm aware the DD and Survival game modes and the biomes require overhauling, but I've been putting it off in order to add game play features that I feel help to differentiate the game from Minecraft. If I had instead spent the time overhauling Survival and biomes,  then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Once I'm happy the differentiating features are close to where I want them, and we are getting close to that point, I will start to allocate some time to Survival and biomes.

Absolutely, I think TM's creative mode really blew a lot of people expectations out of the water. Especially with these new additions TM's creative gives Minecrafts creative mode a run for its money. But I think that the biomes and survival features could be changed to compete with minecrafts. Obviously TM is no triple AAA game, but with what the community has at the moment, I think it could be done.

I love DD. I have been playing on the same map for 2 years. I think of DD maps as a creative experience that you have to earn. I can agree that some skill/item jumps are a bit much and perhaps some pricing, but to change any core aspect of DD would be a terrible idea. I have taken the time needed to be a master of economizing, zoning, building, and now I am endevouring to master scripts. TMF is one of my favorite games because of DD. Sure, I could have done it all in creative, and more, but with a severely lessened sense of accomplishment. I will say that I feel survival shouldn't have shops at all. I remember playing my 'world of the beast map' on DD, legendary, with survival aspect. No mini map and the shops were extremely limited on everything. No that was survival! I still have it but the 2.0 update unlocked the shop inventory, spiders don't spawn from the trees, and the sky isn't red. It did the same to my moon map. But they are unique maps so I keep them. Please don't mutilate DD...

Obviously you have had some great experience with the DD game mode, but it seems most of what you're saying comes from past experience. No doubt DD was fun for many people, I had great fun when I first purchased the game as well. But the overhaul DD needs requires a lot of that to be changed. Im fully confident you'll have just as, if not more fun with new additions to the game mode.

I suppose so. I host my DD map often and many people have gotten to enjoy the feel of what is possible once you have put the work in. I run a kingdom, fueled by people selling loot from killing mobs and working the jobs I have set up. Once they gain some success, I have homes available. Nothing all that new, but I did it in DD. I believe DD is for patient gamers that don't mind having to hunt down blueprints and mine or otherwise earn materials for builds and such. Personally, I enjoy it. Oh and for the record... There are a lot of aspects I like but, MC is for kiddies. In my opinion, TMF blows it away with what u can do! Not not to mention MC multiplayer is limited. I have had over 900 visitors to my map. And being able to protect your map with zoning... invaluable to someone like me with 900 hours logged in 1 world.

Ditto. Most of the additions would be just that, additions. Obviously some things go and some things come in to replace them, but they definitely will make the game mode improve.

Spoiler for Hidden Content:
I think that Blueprints should allow a choice on what to learn how to craft.
In addition, There would be multiple tiers of blueprints that correspond to different items.

You also should not be able to research something until you have researched all of it's ingredients, And the tiers before it.

So in order to craft troll hide armour, You have to have researched leather armour first.



On the surface you would find tier 1 BPs, To craft iron stuff and wood stuff.

Then you go down and find T2 BPs, Then T3 BPs, Etc.
You still have to find every BP to craft everything, But you get to choose what path you want to take with them.

Dryym this is exactly how I pictured the system in my head. Great way of explaining it! I might add it to the OP! ;)

This could happen by having blueprints attached to semi-randomly generated dungeons.

Say, in order to collect your blueprints for iron weapons/tools/armor, you'll need to raid a goblin camp.

And in order to get steel you must siege a castle and kill the King.

Etc.

This is definitely possible, with the new NPC AI.

Ditto. A lot can be tested to see what fits the game best.

Nefty

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
  • Awards Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners Former MotM winners 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Youtube
    • Awards
  • Xbox: _______
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2016, 04:24:10 PM »
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I feel like I should talk about why I am pushing for this. Obviously Im passionate about my opinion, and I want to see the game succeed. But the main reason is popularity. No not for myself, but for the game mdoes. Get on Xbox Live and look at the maps open. 90% of them are Creative. I'd bet most of the community agree TM's creative trumps Minecrafts creative. I'd bet that most non biased players would prefer TM to minecraft. But Dig Deep and Survival are rather lacking. I believe with what TM has at its use it could be a completely better all around game than minecraft.

Craig (putting you on the spot, sorry) said this:

then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Id disagree with this statement. Obviously Minecraft has the money, and man power at its disposal. TM has 2 devs and a testing team. Not starting off great. The reason I disagree is because of one game. Bioshock Infinite. Game of the year 2013 runner up, only losing out to Last Of Us (great game by the way.)

Bioshock Infinite was made a dev team of about 30-40 people. Bioshock Infinite finished ahead of GTA V in game of the year by one place. GTA V has made close to 2 billion dollars in sales. Take that power ball. Anyway, GTA V was developed by a team of 1,000.

"Grand Theft Auto V was developed by more than 1,000 people across multiple Rockstar Games studios, Rockstar North president Leslie Benzies told Develop in a new interview."

Point in case, money and man power doesn't always win. I think DD/Survival could easily beat out Minecrafts survival aspect of each games respective modes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dark Hydrak

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2016, 05:31:55 PM »
The number 1 thing I hate about survival is the spawn killing. Its ridiculous. If you die, you're done until it's day.

Jared

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2494
  • |Trivia & Maze Designer| |Previous TMF Tester|
  • Awards 3 years on site 4 years on site Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar 2 years on site Former MotM winners 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: Jeff McNewmen
  • PSN: Jeff_McNewmen
  • Steam: Jeff McNewmen
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2016, 07:18:21 PM »
I'm going to make this short, sweet, and right to the point. I couldn't agree more with Nefty's post.

Trubtavium Recordsmith VII

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
  • Do you wanna see the Galaxy?
  • Awards Former MotM winners Month 1 members w/25+posts (4/21/13-5/12/13) 5 years on site 4 years on site Donated a giveaway prize. (Must be a prize of cash value.) Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar Awarded to exemplary forum members 3 years on site 2 years on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: Trubstep Record
  • Steam: Trubstep_Record
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2016, 09:36:31 PM »
As a very big Dig Deep player and enthusiast, I love Nefty's ideas. Along with Dryym's new BP idea, I'd be very hyped to see these changes.

Craig

  • Developer
  • Extreme Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6650
  • Dig Deep
  • Awards Developer 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar 1 year on site Day 1 w/25+ posts (4/12/13)
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
    • Awards
  • Steam: tota1miner
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2016, 09:49:22 PM »
Could you possibly give a list of what you would want to add before revamping Survival/DD?
Yes it would probably be a good idea to have a forum for discussion on any big changes before going through with them.

Clerical

  • Tester
  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
  • Pixel Artist And Tester
  • Awards Awarded for extraordinary testing services to our game. Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar Unique Content Contributors 3 years on site 2 years on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 1 year on site Former MotM winners
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: TM Clerical
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2016, 11:26:17 PM »
Obviously agree with most of the OP, But yet again everyone knows this and many do talk about it (Including Craig)

However as Craig mentioned above there are still many things left over that should be done before focus is pushed to Survival/Dig Deep modes.

With dig deep i believe the blueprint system needs to stay as it is, Its what makes it dig deep, not just realy deep survival, and most first time players love the blueprint mechanic, Its only after a few DD maps it becomes tedius.

Blueprint changes
When collecting a blueprint you are offered an option between 3 blueprints
Similar to this.

All three tiers will be of similar reward and type. so if you find a tool BP then you will get a choice between three tools/weapons of the same tier.
What this does it remove the need to get every single blueprint before you find a pickaxe to move on (Which many updates leaves the blueprint for pickaxes out of reach)
Choosing a blueprint will remove the blueprint from the ground and remove the choice from the list so you won't get repeats.

Requirements to wield.
Giving players targets helps them stay motivated, But if they are to difficult/long then they become tedious and are then something that are in the way,
So i propose alot of items/Blocks should have small requirements before they can be used
This picture just an example, but id suggest something like 50 clay instead, As many players like to rush till they get to the first hell layer.
Along with thid goal you are required to of find the previous tier blueprint for the tool, so you can't just skip iron to get to the steel tier items. you need to select a path you want to go down and follow it, if not you need to collect more blueprints.


Generated Structures
Exploration, we all crave it, we all know the game needs it, However i believe we want alot of it. Dungeons, Castles, Sky Fortresses, underwater temples all filled with rewards,traps and mob specific to that area.

End Goal
Everyone wants a goal, Some other biome or some conent that shows you are end game.
Now i think there could be two options. One if fairly obvious.

The moon.
ever since Craig played with gravity and created the moon seed everyone has wanted to go there on their dig deep world and build there.
The sky.

moon not you're style?, how about the heavens?
Or why not just revamp the nexus? Instead of having just red stone everywhere and 1 tower made from bedrock, Why not have a battle zone down their with angels/templars vs diablo's and other dark creatures, a constant battle between both sides. Head down the the nexus and you can head inside a portal which allows you to go to the a place in the sky which is made of clouds where demigods/angels roam.


May add more, got tons oif ideas.

Pixel artist, Map Creator, TotalMiner Tester

Dryym

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • What's yours is mine. ~TM's Resident Master Thief~
  • Awards Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar Awarded to exemplary forum members 2 years on site 3 years on site Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: dryym
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2016, 08:27:23 AM »
moon not you're style?, how about the heavens?
Or why not just revamp the nexus? Instead of having just red stone everywhere and 1 tower made from bedrock, Why not have a battle zone down their with angels/templars vs diablo's and other dark creatures, a constant battle between both sides. Head down the the nexus and you can head inside a portal which allows you to go to the a place in the sky which is made of clouds where demigods/angels roam.


May add more, got tons oif ideas.


I have never understood why you call rhyolite layer "Nexus". It made no sense, But by (I think) pure coincidence the name you chose actually makes sense with your idea.

Nexus means tie, Or connection. So if the nexus is a portal room to other pocket realms it would actually be pretty cool.


My thoughts, There needs to be no angelic tower, As the angels being holy servants will most likely not need a material location of rest as the attackers. They can just be beamed down from Mount Olympus/Asgard/Heaven/The Moon/Whatever.


The Demons however have created this structure out of indestructible materials to protect their portals to other dimensions or locations.

Maybe these demons are just being subjected to some kind of racial profiling. Being assumed to be evil when in reality it was their ancestors that did unspeakable things. They may want to go some place where the gods have no jurisdiction so they can live their lives free of the oppression of the gods and the humans (666 seed?).


Always take the story of both sides of a conflict in to account. Lol

Perhaps you could be given a quest by leaders of each side to either help the demons escape this realm, Or to help the angels annihilate the portals and the demons.

Talking to the lead Demon would have you searching for parts to finish the portals, It would also mean all Diablos would be passive to you. Allowing you to talk to them and possibly even recruit them into your party as a bodyguard. It would also make angels hostile to you.

Upon completing the quest, All portals will have been built, The demons will have (Mostly) left, And you are free to use the portals whenever you want.


In the overworld, Angels would take the place of the Diablo as a tough mob trying to kill you, And any remaining demons will still me able to be recruited as bodyguards.


Talking to the Angel leader will have you enter the bedrock tower, And kill everyone there to stop all progress on the portals. At which point you gain the blueprints for a basic portal frame, But have to figure out how to activate it as that information died with the demons there.

You will also be able to recruit angels as bodyguards.

Good and Evil is very subjective, And there are good and evil things about every side in a war.
Maybe if the Angel leader and the Demon leader were to sit down and actually talk they would realize that both sides are wrong, And maybe war is not the way... ;)

I think it could also be cool if when wearing the Diablo skin, Angels spawn naturally and attack you, Where Diablos are passive to you.

Creator of the term "Deathmine "
Jared [19|Oct 07:12 PM]: "It changes everything" Dryym

Clerical

  • Tester
  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3227
  • Pixel Artist And Tester
  • Awards Awarded for extraordinary testing services to our game. Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar Unique Content Contributors 3 years on site 2 years on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 1 year on site Former MotM winners
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: TM Clerical
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2016, 08:40:01 AM »

I have never understood why you call rhyolite layer "Nexus". It made no sense, But by (I think) pure coincidence the name you chose actually makes sense with your idea.

No idea, Quad started it and every carried it on, better then called it 2nd hell XD

And yeah could go on i was tempted to go all out on the angel/diablo but it was late and i could not be bothered to make stuff for pictures lol XD

Pixel artist, Map Creator, TotalMiner Tester

King Goliath

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • god i love drinking bleach
  • Awards 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: redX468
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2016, 09:21:01 AM »
I love this topic literally everything i complain about with my friends are here, (including those pesky trees that don't give me saplings. But i hope to see an overhaul soon i think we have enough features in game right now... So hopefully this & mobs could be 1st on the list
What am i even talking about

Dryym

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • What's yours is mine. ~TM's Resident Master Thief~
  • Awards Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar Awarded to exemplary forum members 2 years on site 3 years on site Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: dryym
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2016, 09:40:50 AM »
No idea, Quad started it and every carried it on, better then called it 2nd hell XD

And yeah could go on i was tempted to go all out on the angel/diablo but it was late and i could not be bothered to make stuff for pictures lol XD

Ah, I asked because you are the only one who I have ever seen call it that. New or Old.

But the name gave me the cool idea, So I can't complain. Even if it never made sense before now.

Creator of the term "Deathmine "
Jared [19|Oct 07:12 PM]: "It changes everything" Dryym

Rev Elevenclaw

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • Awards 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: Rev Elevenclaw
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2016, 10:27:29 AM »
Quoting Nefty...
Obviously you have had some great experience with the DD game mode, but it seems most of what you're saying comes from past experience. No doubt DD was fun for many people, I had great fun when I first purchased the game as well. But the overhaul DD needs requires a lot of that to be changed. Im fully confident you'll have just as, if not more fun with new additions to the game mode.

It is true my map originated 1.8, however I have kept it up to date as TMF evolved. And I plan to continue evolving it as more is available. I would love to give u a tour. My builds may look a bit "old school", but believe me has all the right stuff. And plenty more to come. So I may seem a bit resistant, that is because last core changes like weapons n armor, enc. items, n skilling had a negative impact in my map. I had blueprints duping and got locked out on a lot of items. This has since been remedied and I hope my map is never rendered unusable. That would be lame, so I worry. I know...kinda selfish.
Focus determines reality...

Holden

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 216
  • MAGA
  • Awards Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • The Don
    • Awards
  • Xbox: Holden
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2016, 11:23:58 AM »
#5) Skills. What was once the Titanic on paper, turned into well, the titanic in game. Skills went from a great way to introduce RPG maps in a more effective way, and to add another challenge to Survival based game modes, turned into hours of grinding. When they came out I taped my controller down in various locations and went to chipotle with my friends, came back and I was a level 5 miner. Point in case, Skill revamp. I know they're not mandatory, and if you don't want to grind for hours don't play with it on. Except, I like the extra challenge of having to had mined a certain amount to get the next series of tools. This could even tie into what I said in step 3 with researching, maybe need a certain skill level to research new tools. Anyway, I fell as if things are too spaced out in skills, too far of jumps between tools and blocks. Skills should challenge, yet compliment the player. Not force them into hours of grinding away.
Personally i liked the old skills where the max was 99 but the max you needed to use items were around 50. It was a goal that wasnt completely impossible and only for the determined, considering it was only 32 mil xp and now the max is 999,999,999. Anyway great list and definitely agree with most of it.

Nefty

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
  • Awards Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners Former MotM winners 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Youtube
    • Awards
  • Xbox: _______
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2016, 05:08:25 PM »
Quoting Nefty...
Obviously you have had some great experience with the DD game mode, but it seems most of what you're saying comes from past experience. No doubt DD was fun for many people, I had great fun when I first purchased the game as well. But the overhaul DD needs requires a lot of that to be changed. Im fully confident you'll have just as, if not more fun with new additions to the game mode.

It is true my map originated 1.8, however I have kept it up to date as TMF evolved. And I plan to continue evolving it as more is available. I would love to give u a tour. My builds may look a bit "old school", but believe me has all the right stuff. And plenty more to come. So I may seem a bit resistant, that is because last core changes like weapons n armor, enc. items, n skilling had a negative impact in my map. I had blueprints duping and got locked out on a lot of items. This has since been remedied and I hope my map is never rendered unusable. That would be lame, so I worry. I know...kinda selfish.

Not selfish in my eyes. But think most if not all DD maps would benefit from a gamemode overhaul.


Personally i liked the old skills where the max was 99 but the max you needed to use items were around 50. It was a goal that wasnt completely impossible and only for the determined, considering it was only 32 mil xp and now the max is 999,999,999. Anyway great list and definitely agree with most of it.

Yes, but having half of the max completely useless seems rather counter intuitive. Why even make it go to 99 if everything is unlocked by 50? That's like being able to go level 100 in CoD but being able to prestige at 65.

Nefty

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2434
  • Awards Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners Former MotM winners 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Youtube
    • Awards
  • Xbox: _______
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2016, 10:48:12 AM »
Spoiler for Hidden Content:
Obviously agree with most of the OP, But yet again everyone knows this and many do talk about it (Including Craig)

However as Craig mentioned above there are still many things left over that should be done before focus is pushed to Survival/Dig Deep modes.

With dig deep i believe the blueprint system needs to stay as it is, Its what makes it dig deep, not just realy deep survival, and most first time players love the blueprint mechanic, Its only after a few DD maps it becomes tedius.

Blueprint changes
When collecting a blueprint you are offered an option between 3 blueprints
Similar to this.

All three tiers will be of similar reward and type. so if you find a tool BP then you will get a choice between three tools/weapons of the same tier.
What this does it remove the need to get every single blueprint before you find a pickaxe to move on (Which many updates leaves the blueprint for pickaxes out of reach)
Choosing a blueprint will remove the blueprint from the ground and remove the choice from the list so you won't get repeats.

Requirements to wield.
Giving players targets helps them stay motivated, But if they are to difficult/long then they become tedious and are then something that are in the way,
So i propose alot of items/Blocks should have small requirements before they can be used
This picture just an example, but id suggest something like 50 clay instead, As many players like to rush till they get to the first hell layer.
Along with thid goal you are required to of find the previous tier blueprint for the tool, so you can't just skip iron to get to the steel tier items. you need to select a path you want to go down and follow it, if not you need to collect more blueprints.


Generated Structures
Exploration, we all crave it, we all know the game needs it, However i believe we want alot of it. Dungeons, Castles, Sky Fortresses, underwater temples all filled with rewards,traps and mob specific to that area.

End Goal
Everyone wants a goal, Some other biome or some conent that shows you are end game.
Now i think there could be two options. One if fairly obvious.

The moon.
ever since Craig played with gravity and created the moon seed everyone has wanted to go there on their dig deep world and build there.
The sky.

moon not you're style?, how about the heavens?
Or why not just revamp the nexus? Instead of having just red stone everywhere and 1 tower made from bedrock, Why not have a battle zone down their with angels/templars vs diablo's and other dark creatures, a constant battle between both sides. Head down the the nexus and you can head inside a portal which allows you to go to the a place in the sky which is made of clouds where demigods/angels roam.


May add more, got tons oif ideas.

I actually enjoy this way of changing blue prints as well. I think there a many great ways DD Blueprints could be improved. I think some sort of tier system is what should be aimed for.