Author Topic:  Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul  (Read 5686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nefty

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2420
  • This Hotel Sucks
  • Awards Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners Former MotM winners 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Youtube
    • Awards
  • Xbox: MoiraIsEasyPOTG
  • PSN: N/A
  • Steam: OffenderMcGee
Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« on: January 13, 2016, 10:05:29 PM »
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-Alright its going to take me awhile to get my argument across, but id ask you read it completely before you comment. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with this idea/opinion, and i'd love feedback. Please don't fill the thread with +1 -1's cause they aren't helpful. I will also be comparing Survival and Dig Deep to Minecraft, a lot. I know a lot of members of the forums don't like having TM compared to Minecraft, but its one of the few games that is the same if not better than TM in a direct comparison. I'd also like to apologize for any spelling/grammar mistakes in advance. With that said, lets get into this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Alright, so from the title you can tell I am petitioning (if you can call it that) for a complete and utter overhaul of the survival and dig deep game modes of the game. Yes I know those are major changes, but I will tell you why in just a moment.

#1) For me survival is way way way too easy. #1 reason being the economy, the block shops, the item shops. The ability to mine X amounts of a certain block to buy a picaxe/tool. The point is that the economy of TM destroys the entire aspect of crafting/smelting. Minecrafts survival mode is based of of leveling up though tiers of tools (wood mines stone, stone mines iron, iron mines diamond, etc...) and causes you to immerse yourself into the gameplay. Total Miner however does no such thing. At some point, you build a square wooden house, mine a bunch of trees, and start making ladders, selling them, making more, and then repeat. After 30 minutes of doing nothing in game but pressing 5 buttons, you have amassed enough coin to purchase a picaxe or other high tool that would've taken hours to get through actual gameplay. Just Youtube it, there are so many exploits on the economic system in TM. Now before you go off saying "but Nefty, the gold pieces are important to TM, they make it unique" Absolutely. My counter argument is that prices should be jacked way way up. Make it so that actually playing the game you payed $3 for is faster and easier than standing behind a single block for half an hour. Look at deathmatches (yes im using a deathmatch to make my point). You cant stand by the block/item shops and sell your way to the top like it was the NASDAQ, you have to play the map. While most make you mindlessly mine blocks, the vanilla version of TM could improve on that. Adventure for treasure chests is already a large part of it. By making ores and other precious blocks easier to be obtained when going caving, it gives the player the need, no, the want to go caving.

#2) Biome generation is flawed. I don't know much about the hardware or technology behind it, but choosing one biome to play your map in is a complete disappointment. Biome generation is iffy, with the exception of Desert which I love, but when you're stuck in one biome your entire experience it dulls down the excitement. Imagine playing CoD multiplayer on one map! Once again where Minecraft flourish, the ability to make villages and other structures to exclusive to certain biomes when playing was awesome! I always had a desert and snow castle when I played. Anyway, point is, multiple Biomes per map would make Survival/DD experience so much more enjoyable.

#3) Those pesky pesky blue prints. Now I actually love blue prints, very interesting take on the game mode. My problem comes with their spawn. When you spend most of your gameplay experience running around looking for blue prints, it takes away from the overall fun. Its rather annoying when you are trying to craft/build and then you don't have the blue print, so you spend endless amount of time looking for that one blueprint, only to find a "steel claymore." I get it that its part of the experience, but how many players actually want to roam around looking for them? They're the only reason I would ever go down in caves in DD, because like I said in #1, and I will talking about caves soon. I would counter with a different idea for researching items. Almost like a blue print, however you have to have a set of items crafted. For instance to craft an Iron Pc, you need to have made a Wood Pic, Wood Axe, maybe like a Wood Bow? Basically so its not just wham bam thank you ma'am now I know how to make a.... "iron hoe?" Well that's not useful.

#4) Caves. Minecrafts caves are glorious. Caves upon caves running into more caves dropping into ravines with lava. TM, well not so much. Caves are most often one giant pathway, very rarely running into each other. Not to mention the ugly pools of water and lava that still dot the caverns, they make no sense now that there is water physics. Ores are few and far between, and without your Map HUD on good luck find a substantial amount. And they also end abruptly, oh you were getting interested? Getting to Diorite level? Congrats, for all that time you spent moving forward, you have achieved nothing. Caverns need to have more ores, more diversity, more excitement. The game is called Total Miner yet has very few amounts of mining going on.

#5) Skills. What was once the Titanic on paper, turned into well, the titanic in game. Skills went from a great way to introduce RPG maps in a more effective way, and to add another challenge to Survival based game modes, turned into hours of grinding. When they came out I taped my controller down in various locations and went to chipotle with my friends, came back and I was a level 5 miner. Point in case, Skill revamp. I know they're not mandatory, and if you don't want to grind for hours don't play with it on. Except, I like the extra challenge of having to had mined a certain amount to get the next series of tools. This could even tie into what I said in step 3 with researching, maybe need a certain skill level to research new tools. Anyway, I fell as if things are too spaced out in skills, too far of jumps between tools and blocks. Skills should challenge, yet compliment the player. Not force them into hours of grinding away.

#6) Biome Generation: The Sequel. This portion I will be discussing individual biomes. I have no problems with Desert, if anyone does please feel free to post them. Semi-Alpine is an average biome. The beaches surrounding the lakes are just ugly, they're usually 1-2 blocks wide and just fit right. And they land mass always falls the water level perfectly, no ledges, no cliffs, nothing. The landscape if very smooth, and I really don't like it. Another thing I cant stand is in grasslands, the landscape of pure grass is just ugly as well. I guess with multiple biomes per map it could look better, but it looks awful. "But Nefty, its grasslands, shouldn't it all be grass." You're absolutely right! But even the great plains have variations. The lakes/ponds especially are ugly, 1-3 blocks deep and always small just bugs me. The point Im making is to add more variation to Biome Generation.

#7) Those damned Trees. Trees look great, especially from the new update. But when you mine all the woods blocks, the leaves remain in the same spot! It looks awful seeing flying leaves everywhere! Then the shaded grass....? You cut down a tree, and remove its leaves, yet the grass remains shaded? The texture on all 4 main textures look awful, and just doesn't fit. And saplings could actually fall from trees without them being cut down? Oddly enough trees reproduce while alive.

#8) Generated Structures! Not absolutely necessary, but a wide open landscape can be rather dull if not done right. A few buildings, villages, castles, towers, etc... mixed in would really spice up a lot of the game!

#9) Better Ranged Mechanics (From Dryym)
Spoiler for Hidden Content:
I think that TM's ranged mechanics need to be worked on, As currently the arrows feel like they are floating in space when you shoot them. It isn't really that fun because it's ridiculous to try to hit someone.

I also think that the different bow types should be completely different from the others, Thus not making the lower level bows obsolete, Let's leave progression to the arrows.

First off, All bows would have a draw weight, This would determine the power, And speed of the arrow, But also determines the time it takes to pull the bow string back, And how long the bow can be held back.

Second off, Specialty arrows (Boom, Fire, And Ice) should be heavier, And thus have less range then conventional arrows.

Finally, The higher your strength level, The faster you can pull the bow string back, And the longer you can hold it back.

Ok, Let's get on to the different types of bows.


---------------------


Wood Bow: This is your starting bow, It looks like a simple longbow, So it would have an average draw weight. Meaning that it would have decent draw speed, And holding time for beginners. A good, Cheap all around bow.

Gold Bow: I'm not entirely sure what the gold bow looks like, So I'm guessing it's stats. It would have a light draw weight, Not having much power or range, But being able to fire faster then all other bows.

Spider Bow: The Spider bow looks like a (Very crazy) Recurve bow, So it would probably have a lighter draw weight then the longbow, But due to it's design it would transfer it's energy more efficiently, Resulting in range and damage more than the gold bow, But less then the longing.

Troll Bow: The Troll Bow looks like a really beefy longbow, So it would have a really heavy draw weight, Meaning that it would have much greater power and range then all of the other bows, But at the cost of a really slow draw speed which can't be held for very long at all.

Titanium Bow: The Titanium Bow looks like a modern compound bow. So it would have a draw weight slightly heavier then the longbow, Meaning more power and range with a slower draw speed, But it can be held at full draw for longer due to it's modern design.

Elven Bow: The Elven Bow looks similar to a longbow, But has the special infinite ammo bonus. As such, I think it should have a draw weight in between the compound, And Troll bows. Favouring power over speed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Possibly more to be added. Please be respectful in the comments and feel free to agree/disagree and add your comments on the thread, Thanks!
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 02:21:46 PM by Nefty »
Miner Of The Month - April 2014

Bunz

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Detotated wam
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: Hey Its Bunz
  • PSN: N/A
  • Steam: N/A
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2016, 10:14:07 PM »
This is the kind of stuff I wish TM had while taking a shower. TM needs this really bad.

#ButterThyStick( ͡ ͜ʖ ͡)

Craig

  • Developer
  • Extreme Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6650
  • Dig Deep
  • Awards Developer 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar 1 year on site Day 1 w/25+ posts (4/12/13)
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
    • Awards
  • Steam: tota1miner
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2016, 10:50:30 PM »
Great post Nefty. I'll keep an eye on it and prune any stupidity.

Dark Hydrak

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 508
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 11:08:16 PM »
I can agree with everything on here.

This is why I dislike survival/dig deep. Its too boring. It needs more epic sprinkled everywhere.

I would LOVE to see features that add to the sense of Adventure, Danger, and a Goal(*cough* Boss *cough*)

xTokioBeatlex7

  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
  • Here to Help!
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: xTokioBeatlex
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2016, 11:21:05 PM »
I would actually play more survival or DD if these were implemented. No objections here.
Definitely not a Destructo-Kitten.

Gary

  • Tester
  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
  • Steam: Conmaan ... ... Discord: Conmaan #9586
  • Awards 1 year on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 Former MotM winners
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2016, 11:36:11 PM »
I can't agree enough with the OP.


               

Link to my youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo4rmelSOUB9YMM0Is-zWyQ

MLG Zombiez

  • Fresh Meat
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: MLG Zombiez2016
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2016, 11:39:15 PM »
Yeah, the shops are to OP.

Jakub34

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 237
  • Awards Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • http://www.kongregate.com/games/Coolio_Niato/streamline?acomplete=streaml
    • Awards
  • Xbox: jakub34
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2016, 11:44:22 PM »
Now what if Dig deep and survival let us go to space XD Anyways good ideas ;)

Craig

  • Developer
  • Extreme Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6650
  • Dig Deep
  • Awards Developer 5 years on site 4 years on site 3 years on site 2 years on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar 1 year on site Day 1 w/25+ posts (4/12/13)
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
    • Awards
  • Steam: tota1miner
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 12:25:43 AM »
Just a comment from me to give people an idea why things are as they are regarding DD and Survival.

The reason is simply a time choice.

I'm aware the DD and Survival game modes and the biomes require overhauling, but I've been putting it off in order to add game play features that I feel help to differentiate the game from Minecraft. If I had instead spent the time overhauling Survival and biomes,  then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Once I'm happy the differentiating features are close to where I want them, and we are getting close to that point, I will start to allocate some time to Survival and biomes.

Rev Elevenclaw

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • Awards 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: Rev Elevenclaw
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 01:07:37 AM »
I love DD. I have been playing on the same map for 2 years. I think of DD maps as a creative experience that you have to earn. I can agree that some skill/item jumps are a bit much and perhaps some pricing, but to change any core aspect of DD would be a terrible idea. I have taken the time needed to be a master of economizing, zoning, building, and now I am endevouring to master scripts. TMF is one of my favorite games because of DD. Sure, I could have done it all in creative, and more, but with a severely lessened sense of accomplishment. I will say that I feel survival shouldn't have shops at all. I remember playing my 'world of the beast map' on DD, legendary, with survival aspect. No mini map and the shops were extremely limited on everything. No that was survival! I still have it but the 2.0 update unlocked the shop inventory, spiders don't spawn from the trees, and the sky isn't red. It did the same to my moon map. But they are unique maps so I keep them. Please don't mutilate DD...
Focus determines reality...

Gary

  • Tester
  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
  • Steam: Conmaan ... ... Discord: Conmaan #9586
  • Awards 1 year on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 Former MotM winners
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 01:16:12 AM »
to change any core aspect of DD would be a terrible idea

I think that, ideally, it would be best to improve on the current mechanics rather than get rid of them.

Sure, this might involve change. Hell, it might even involve full blown overhauls, but while change can sometimes be a difficult thing to approach, in this case I think it'd be better for the game and would make it more enjoyable.


               

Link to my youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo4rmelSOUB9YMM0Is-zWyQ

Rev Elevenclaw

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • Awards 2 years on site 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: Rev Elevenclaw
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 03:15:46 AM »
I suppose so. I host my DD map often and many people have gotten to enjoy the feel of what is possible once you have put the work in. I run a kingdom, fueled by people selling loot from killing mobs and working the jobs I have set up. Once they gain some success, I have homes available. Nothing all that new, but I did it in DD. I believe DD is for patient gamers that don't mind having to hunt down blueprints and mine or otherwise earn materials for builds and such. Personally, I enjoy it. Oh and for the record... There are a lot of aspects I like but, MC is for kiddies. In my opinion, TMF blows it away with what u can do! Not not to mention MC multiplayer is limited. I have had over 900 visitors to my map. And being able to protect your map with zoning... invaluable to someone like me with 900 hours logged in 1 world.
Focus determines reality...

Dryym

  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
  • What's yours is mine. ~TM's Resident Master Thief~
  • Awards Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar Awarded to exemplary forum members 2 years on site 3 years on site Site art contributions/TPs in-game/Contest winners 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: dryym
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2016, 06:50:05 AM »
I think that Blueprints should allow a choice on what to learn how to craft.
In addition, There would be multiple tiers of blueprints that correspond to different items.

You also should not be able to research something until you have researched all of it's ingredients, And the tiers before it.

So in order to craft troll hide armour, You have to have researched leather armour first.



On the surface you would find tier 1 BPs, To craft iron stuff and wood stuff.

Then you go down and find T2 BPs, Then T3 BPs, Etc.
You still have to find every BP to craft everything, But you get to choose what path you want to take with them.

Creator of the term "Deathmine "
Jared [19|Oct 07:12 PM]: "It changes everything" Dryym

AlienizdPixel

  • Tester
  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2719
  • Hello
  • Awards 3 years on site Members who have unlocked the robotic avatar Awarded to exemplary forum members 2 years on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 1 year on site
    • View Profile
    • Awards
  • Xbox: A1ienizdPixe1
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2016, 06:58:41 AM »
Just a comment from me to give people an idea why things are as they are regarding DD and Survival.

The reason is simply a time choice.

I'm aware the DD and Survival game modes and the biomes require overhauling, but I've been putting it off in order to add game play features that I feel help to differentiate the game from Minecraft. If I had instead spent the time overhauling Survival and biomes,  then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Once I'm happy the differentiating features are close to where I want them, and we are getting close to that point, I will start to allocate some time to Survival and biomes.
Could you possibly give a list of what you would want to add before revamping Survival/DD?
-Alionz

Gary

  • Tester
  • Supreme Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
  • Steam: Conmaan ... ... Discord: Conmaan #9586
  • Awards 1 year on site Was in the top 10 of the forum stats page as of 4/12/15 Former MotM winners
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2016, 03:35:44 PM »
I think that Blueprints should allow a choice on what to learn how to craft.
In addition, There would be multiple tiers of blueprints that correspond to different items.

You also should not be able to research something until you have researched all of it's ingredients, And the tiers before it.

So in order to craft troll hide armour, You have to have researched leather armour first.



On the surface you would find tier 1 BPs, To craft iron stuff and wood stuff.

Then you go down and find T2 BPs, Then T3 BPs, Etc.
You still have to find every BP to craft everything, But you get to choose what path you want to take with them.

This could happen by having blueprints attached to semi-randomly generated dungeons.

Say, in order to collect your blueprints for iron weapons/tools/armor, you'll need to raid a goblin camp.

And in order to get steel you must siege a castle and kill the King.

Etc.

This is definitely possible, with the new NPC AI.


               

Link to my youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo4rmelSOUB9YMM0Is-zWyQ