Author Topic:  Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul  (Read 5846 times)

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Nefty

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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2016, 08:21:16 PM »
Hence why I said survival. Lol.

The same principle still impacts DD because there are no generated structures, but it isn't as significant.

Yes except more often than not you end up staring at the pretty blue arrow rather than immersing in the landscape.

If the quest update comes with generated structures and significant changes to the economy then yes.

Will add generated structures to OP.[color]
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2016, 07:02:43 PM »
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2016, 07:36:53 PM »
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.
Would you say..
Dark Souls hard?

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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2016, 07:45:50 PM »
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.

Playing on Legendary?


               

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Nefty

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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2016, 07:47:44 PM »
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.

Playing on Legendary?

Trying.
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2016, 08:16:48 AM »
well the problem for me was that when i cut down the only trees that i could grow, the leaves just sat there floating so no sappling came down so now there is no wood. so my game is pretty much over. I checked everywhere there is no oasis anywhere else that has sapplings around
What am i even talking about

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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2016, 02:22:13 PM »
Added Dryym's Ranged Improvement Topic as #9

Spoiler for Hidden Content:
I think that TM's ranged mechanics need to be worked on, As currently the arrows feel like they are floating in space when you shoot them. It isn't really that fun because it's ridiculous to try to hit someone.

I also think that the different bow types should be completely different from the others, Thus not making the lower level bows obsolete, Let's leave progression to the arrows.

First off, All bows would have a draw weight, This would determine the power, And speed of the arrow, But also determines the time it takes to pull the bow string back, And how long the bow can be held back.

Second off, Specialty arrows (Boom, Fire, And Ice) should be heavier, And thus have less range then conventional arrows.

Finally, The higher your strength level, The faster you can pull the bow string back, And the longer you can hold it back.

Ok, Let's get on to the different types of bows.


---------------------


Wood Bow: This is your starting bow, It looks like a simple longbow, So it would have an average draw weight. Meaning that it would have decent draw speed, And holding time for beginners. A good, Cheap all around bow.

Gold Bow: I'm not entirely sure what the gold bow looks like, So I'm guessing it's stats. It would have a light draw weight, Not having much power or range, But being able to fire faster then all other bows.

Spider Bow: The Spider bow looks like a (Very crazy) Recurve bow, So it would probably have a lighter draw weight then the longbow, But due to it's design it would transfer it's energy more efficiently, Resulting in range and damage more than the gold bow, But less then the longing.

Troll Bow: The Troll Bow looks like a really beefy longbow, So it would have a really heavy draw weight, Meaning that it would have much greater power and range then all of the other bows, But at the cost of a really slow draw speed which can't be held for very long at all.

Titanium Bow: The Titanium Bow looks like a modern compound bow. So it would have a draw weight slightly heavier then the longbow, Meaning more power and range with a slower draw speed, But it can be held at full draw for longer due to it's modern design.

Elven Bow: The Elven Bow looks similar to a longbow, But has the special infinite ammo bonus. As such, I think it should have a draw weight in between the compound, And Troll bows. Favouring power over speed.
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2017, 11:09:08 PM »
Spoiler for Hidden Content:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-Alright its going to take me awhile to get my argument across, but id ask you read it completely before you comment. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with this idea/opinion, and i'd love feedback. Please don't fill the thread with +1 -1's cause they aren't helpful. I will also be comparing Survival and Dig Deep to Minecraft, a lot. I know a lot of members of the forums don't like having TM compared to Minecraft, but its one of the few games that is the same if not better than TM in a direct comparison. I'd also like to apologize for any spelling/grammar mistakes in advance. With that said, lets get into this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Alright, so from the title you can tell I am petitioning (if you can call it that) for a complete and utter overhaul of the survival and dig deep game modes of the game. Yes I know those are major changes, but I will tell you why in just a moment.

#1) For me survival is way way way too easy. #1 reason being the economy, the block shops, the item shops. The ability to mine X amounts of a certain block to buy a picaxe/tool. The point is that the economy of TM destroys the entire aspect of crafting/smelting. Minecrafts survival mode is based of of leveling up though tiers of tools (wood mines stone, stone mines iron, iron mines diamond, etc...) and causes you to immerse yourself into the gameplay. Total Miner however does no such thing. At some point, you build a square wooden house, mine a bunch of trees, and start making ladders, selling them, making more, and then repeat. After 30 minutes of doing nothing in game but pressing 5 buttons, you have amassed enough coin to purchase a picaxe or other high tool that would've taken hours to get through actual gameplay. Just Youtube it, there are so many exploits on the economic system in TM. Now before you go off saying "but Nefty, the gold pieces are important to TM, they make it unique" Absolutely. My counter argument is that prices should be jacked way way up. Make it so that actually playing the game you payed $3 for is faster and easier than standing behind a single block for half an hour. Look at deathmatches (yes im using a deathmatch to make my point). You cant stand by the block/item shops and sell your way to the top like it was the NASDAQ, you have to play the map. While most make you mindlessly mine blocks, the vanilla version of TM could improve on that. Adventure for treasure chests is already a large part of it. By making ores and other precious blocks easier to be obtained when going caving, it gives the player the need, no, the want to go caving.

#2) Biome generation is flawed. I don't know much about the hardware or technology behind it, but choosing one biome to play your map in is a complete disappointment. Biome generation is iffy, with the exception of Desert which I love, but when you're stuck in one biome your entire experience it dulls down the excitement. Imagine playing CoD multiplayer on one map! Once again where Minecraft flourish, the ability to make villages and other structures to exclusive to certain biomes when playing was awesome! I always had a desert and snow castle when I played. Anyway, point is, multiple Biomes per map would make Survival/DD experience so much more enjoyable.

#3) Those pesky pesky blue prints. Now I actually love blue prints, very interesting take on the game mode. My problem comes with their spawn. When you spend most of your gameplay experience running around looking for blue prints, it takes away from the overall fun. Its rather annoying when you are trying to craft/build and then you don't have the blue print, so you spend endless amount of time looking for that one blueprint, only to find a "steel claymore." I get it that its part of the experience, but how many players actually want to roam around looking for them? They're the only reason I would ever go down in caves in DD, because like I said in #1, and I will talking about caves soon. I would counter with a different idea for researching items. Almost like a blue print, however you have to have a set of items crafted. For instance to craft an Iron Pc, you need to have made a Wood Pic, Wood Axe, maybe like a Wood Bow? Basically so its not just wham bam thank you ma'am now I know how to make a.... "iron hoe?" Well that's not useful.

#4) Caves. Minecrafts caves are glorious. Caves upon caves running into more caves dropping into ravines with lava. TM, well not so much. Caves are most often one giant pathway, very rarely running into each other. Not to mention the ugly pools of water and lava that still dot the caverns, they make no sense now that there is water physics. Ores are few and far between, and without your Map HUD on good luck find a substantial amount. And they also end abruptly, oh you were getting interested? Getting to Diorite level? Congrats, for all that time you spent moving forward, you have achieved nothing. Caverns need to have more ores, more diversity, more excitement. The game is called Total Miner yet has very few amounts of mining going on.

#5) Skills. What was once the Titanic on paper, turned into well, the titanic in game. Skills went from a great way to introduce RPG maps in a more effective way, and to add another challenge to Survival based game modes, turned into hours of grinding. When they came out I taped my controller down in various locations and went to chipotle with my friends, came back and I was a level 5 miner. Point in case, Skill revamp. I know they're not mandatory, and if you don't want to grind for hours don't play with it on. Except, I like the extra challenge of having to had mined a certain amount to get the next series of tools. This could even tie into what I said in step 3 with researching, maybe need a certain skill level to research new tools. Anyway, I fell as if things are too spaced out in skills, too far of jumps between tools and blocks. Skills should challenge, yet compliment the player. Not force them into hours of grinding away.

#6) Biome Generation: The Sequel. This portion I will be discussing individual biomes. I have no problems with Desert, if anyone does please feel free to post them. Semi-Alpine is an average biome. The beaches surrounding the lakes are just ugly, they're usually 1-2 blocks wide and just fit right. And they land mass always falls the water level perfectly, no ledges, no cliffs, nothing. The landscape if very smooth, and I really don't like it. Another thing I cant stand is in grasslands, the landscape of pure grass is just ugly as well. I guess with multiple biomes per map it could look better, but it looks awful. "But Nefty, its grasslands, shouldn't it all be grass." You're absolutely right! But even the great plains have variations. The lakes/ponds especially are ugly, 1-3 blocks deep and always small just bugs me. The point Im making is to add more variation to Biome Generation.

#7) Those damned Trees. Trees look great, especially from the new update. But when you mine all the woods blocks, the leaves remain in the same spot! It looks awful seeing flying leaves everywhere! Then the shaded grass....? You cut down a tree, and remove its leaves, yet the grass remains shaded? The texture on all 4 main textures look awful, and just doesn't fit. And saplings could actually fall from trees without them being cut down? Oddly enough trees reproduce while alive.

#8) Generated Structures! Not absolutely necessary, but a wide open landscape can be rather dull if not done right. A few buildings, villages, castles, towers, etc... mixed in would really spice up a lot of the game!

#9) Better Ranged Mechanics (From Dryym)
Spoiler for Hidden Content:
I think that TM's ranged mechanics need to be worked on, As currently the arrows feel like they are floating in space when you shoot them. It isn't really that fun because it's ridiculous to try to hit someone.

I also think that the different bow types should be completely different from the others, Thus not making the lower level bows obsolete, Let's leave progression to the arrows.

First off, All bows would have a draw weight, This would determine the power, And speed of the arrow, But also determines the time it takes to pull the bow string back, And how long the bow can be held back.

Second off, Specialty arrows (Boom, Fire, And Ice) should be heavier, And thus have less range then conventional arrows.

Finally, The higher your strength level, The faster you can pull the bow string back, And the longer you can hold it back.

Ok, Let's get on to the different types of bows.


---------------------


Wood Bow: This is your starting bow, It looks like a simple longbow, So it would have an average draw weight. Meaning that it would have decent draw speed, And holding time for beginners. A good, Cheap all around bow.

Gold Bow: I'm not entirely sure what the gold bow looks like, So I'm guessing it's stats. It would have a light draw weight, Not having much power or range, But being able to fire faster then all other bows.

Spider Bow: The Spider bow looks like a (Very crazy) Recurve bow, So it would probably have a lighter draw weight then the longbow, But due to it's design it would transfer it's energy more efficiently, Resulting in range and damage more than the gold bow, But less then the longing.

Troll Bow: The Troll Bow looks like a really beefy longbow, So it would have a really heavy draw weight, Meaning that it would have much greater power and range then all of the other bows, But at the cost of a really slow draw speed which can't be held for very long at all.

Titanium Bow: The Titanium Bow looks like a modern compound bow. So it would have a draw weight slightly heavier then the longbow, Meaning more power and range with a slower draw speed, But it can be held at full draw for longer due to it's modern design.

Elven Bow: The Elven Bow looks similar to a longbow, But has the special infinite ammo bonus. As such, I think it should have a draw weight in between the compound, And Troll bows. Favouring power over speed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Possibly more to be added. Please be respectful in the comments and feel free to agree/disagree and add your comments on the thread, Thanks!
I'm going to spend a few minutes reviewing this post I made almost a year ago. I've had time to examine these ideas and reflect on my prior opinions, and some change. With the PC release coming I think it'd be a good idea to review this. If you haven't seen this before I would recommend reading the OP to understand everything in depth.

1.) This is the only one I really agree fully with still. The shops are just a no go from me. I'm actually working on a video on how to fix the economy in TM.

2.) I feel as if I was rather unfair on this one. Desert still is my favorite biome, but since downloading Minecraft for my Xbox One and receiving the updates, I absolutely abhor the multitude of biomes. Maybe it is just me but there are too many and they don't mesh well together. While it would be nice to have multiple biomes in a single map, I'm glad its just one as opposed to that 400 in Minecraft.

3.) Assassins Creed Black Flag is a fantastic game. For those who dont know, you play as a pirate with a ship named the Jackdaw. To upgrade your ship you start by simply paying money. Then you need metal and wood, and more money. Then for all the final upgrades you need to find elite plans. these are found at the bottom of the ocean. Very difficult to acquire. I think TM would benefit from this style of blueprint system. Wood and lower-tier metal tools cost money/crafting materials. High-tier metal weapons require research or some form of non-exploratory system of unlocking them. But the sledgehammer, and other god-tier items, require blueprints found in the deep deep caves. This will make the "Dig Deep" aspect more late game yes, but i think by that time the player is more committed to the map and willing to find those extra hard blue prints.

4.) I actually have come to like the caves of Total Miner. they make getting to lower levels much easier. The only criticism that I would hold is have them run into each other, and more of them. Minor improvements at the most.

5.) Still support my claim for skills. If not my ideas, it definitely needs some sort of revamp. Didn't many maps use skills, let alone use them well.

6.) Yes, biomes should generate more interesting than the way they do now. But playing Minecraft and looking at the ugly giant mountains that spawn an inevitable floating island, and then the oceans that go on and on and on. Once again like with the first biome generation, a happy medium between where we are now and Minecrafts and we're sitting pretty.

7.) @Craig I'm sorry I was so damn sarcastic in the OP. I still don't like the leaves not despawning, still don't like shaded grass. But I promise The way they are now is okay. once again minor tweaks are fine.

8.) I'm really in between this decision now. Mainly because how awful Minecraft does it now. Either you don't use the buildings and they go to waste. Or you use the farms and blacksmith chests and essentially start the game a mile ahead of where you would be if you started from scratch. Maybe if Total Miner doesn't have annoying NPC's in these villages that don't sell anything useful. I'd like to hear some other opinions on this.

9.) Dryym can debate his point. I think a total combat overhaul would be nice, but since combat is such a minor part of the game I wouldn't mind seeing this at the bottom of the priority list.

-->> Please leave opinions in the replies. Would love to debate with you all! Also if there are any typos or spelling mistakes let me know over DM!

PS. Is biome spelled wrong? i keep getting the red squigglies under it?
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2017, 01:12:13 AM »
Honestly when it comes to survival, I feel that the game is too linear. Why would you mine when you could save 2-3 hours of grinding just making ladders and doors? "Yeah well if you think its wrong don't do it!" what else would I do when my friends in my game in their Marble Fortress and sentry turreted towers and shed loads of money while i'm still raising funds to upgrade to a diamond pick but mining money ores. The shop is OP, now I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm saying there's gotta be a better way to handle to progression of a survival game. Time in game? Craft 20-50 of this item to unlock the next tier in the shop? Physically have the item in our hand to be able to buy one? Those are all viable answers (not saying they are the best).

As for blueprints, I disagree with what you said but i understand your pain. Just think, have you been on search for a blueprint and found that one ore you needed to upgrade your pickaxe? It's happened to me more than i'd like to admit. I like adventure and, as much as its a grind, I love the feeling of accomplishment when you get them all, or the one you needed for a while.

one things that was't mentioned in the OP, Scripts. Why are we allowed to freely script our way to riches? There should be a huuuuuuuge restriction on the scripts you can use. Even teleporting a little OP, we have obsidian.. use it.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:39:42 PM by II FerGie x 🍀 »

Nefty

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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2017, 02:22:44 PM »
Honestly when it comes to survival, I feel that the game is too linear. Why would you mine when you could save 2-3 hours of grinding just making ladders and doors? "Yeah well if you think its wrong don't do it!" what else would I do when my friends in my game in their Marble Fortress and sentry turreted towers and shed loads of money while i'm still raising funds to upgrade to a diamond pick but mining money ores. The shop is OP, now I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm saying there's gotta be a better way to handle to progression of a survival game. Time in game? Craft 20-50 of this item to unlock the next tier in the shop? Physically have the item in our hand to be able to buy one? Those are all viable answers (not saying they are the best).

As for blueprints, I disagree with what you said but i understand your pain. Just think, have you been on search for a blueprint and found that one ore you needed to upgrade your pickaxe? It's happened to me more than i'd like to admit. I like adventure and, as much as its a grind, I love the feeling of accomplishment when you get them all, or the one you needed for a while.

one things that was't mentioned in the OP, Scripts. Why are we allowed to freely script our way to riches? There should be a huuuuuuuge restriction on the scripts you can use. Even teleporting a little OP, we have obsidian.. use it.


I understand scripts make the game extremely easy. My points were for the game excluding scripting altogether. Even if you handicap yourself the game still needs tweaks in the right places.

Honestly no, I never felt accompished when finding the blueprint I needed. If anything I get angry that it was in last place I was looking  :!
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2017, 04:23:00 PM »
i swear i had a video in my comment on this post :/

Nefty

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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2017, 04:43:59 PM »
i swear i had a video in my comment on this post :/

You did, but its against forum rules to make posts about exploits or gitches. So it was edited out by a mod.
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2017, 04:47:21 PM »
its against forum rules to make posts about exploits or gitches.
Ahh of course, well if you saw it you'll see how easy survival is to exploit. Even without that specific script it's stupidly overpowered. Scripts should be restricted

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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2017, 11:01:52 AM »
I personally love the idea of having prices jacked up and more work effort needed to obtain end game gear, weapons, etc. But for me it's what makes TM different from Minecraft. I remember some of the many exploits for the economic system both loving them because they helped a lot but also hating them because it made the game go by much faster. In the end, however, it all comes down to personal actions. If a player doesn't want to deal with the exploit breaking the experience then they don't have to do it, put simply, the player makes the choice of going that path.
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Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2017, 11:07:48 AM »
I personally love the idea of having prices jacked up and more work effort needed to obtain end game gear, weapons, etc. But for me it's what makes TM different from Minecraft. I remember some of the many exploits for the economic system both loving them because they helped a lot but also hating them because it made the game go by much faster. In the end, however, it all comes down to personal actions. If a player doesn't want to deal with the exploit breaking the experience then they don't have to do it, put simply, the player makes the choice of going that path.

I agree, in my eyes there is nothing better then a game that takes a grind. A game that does not end quickly. A game that takes time. Some people do enjoy exploiting but i honestly don't see the point, it's just basically cheating.