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General => Adult Discussion => Topic started by: MountainDewIt on June 26, 2013, 02:26:25 PM

Title: Education
Post by: MountainDewIt on June 26, 2013, 02:26:25 PM
THIS IS A TOPIC ABOUT EDUMACATION

   Now, you are probably going to think that this is a dumb topic. It could be and could not be. I did think that this should be in the Adult Discussion because if we had 10 year olds in it, they would all be like, "It's stupid and you should not have to be forced to go!!!!" We all know that if given the chance, most people would drop out of school. I am 14, but I have a strong opinion about schooling. I do also realize that education is different depending on where you are from. Texas, US has different requirements than Finland.

   Now, my opinion, keep in mind I am from the US. So, I believe that a good education is very important, for some people. There are jobs out there that can be done with little or no education. Some people may prefer these jobs because they interest them. Although they don't have to go to college, they still have to finish high school, and most of it is a waste of time to them. English, for an example, is very useless for me at this stage. You can see that my English is pretty good. Do I know every single rule? No. Do I need to? No. So really, being forced to take an English class for the next four years of my life is very pointless since I'm not going to be a writer or have a job that has to do with the English I will learn from here on out. This is the same for many of my friends.

   Also, being forced to go to a school and sit in a class for several hours in a day is not doing anything. If I have been sitting for an hour and now must change classes and sit for another hour, I am going to be bored very quick. If I'm bored, it's harder for me to pay attention. I will do worse in this class. I took Algebra I this past year in 8th grade. Almost everyday, for my second period, I would go in, grade homework, then take notes for the rest of the class period. Then I'd go onto the next class and take notes again. Then again. For the first four hours of my day almost everyday, I was taking notes. There has to be a more efficient way to do this, right?

  Then, after several months of the repeated thing, we must test. We have to remember everything from that year. I believe I horribly failed on these test this year. I believe I did well in History and okay in On-Demand Writing. I do realize that the finals in high school will be a little different, but it's still a test. Maybe the amount of test taken in a year should be lowered?

   Those were just some of my opinions on the school system in my area. I don't believe education should disappear, just have reform that will help the students. What are your opinions on your school system?
Title: Re: Education
Post by: TDi Saint on June 26, 2013, 02:45:53 PM
The only problem I have with education for me (UK) is that the current education minister is introducing/trying to introduce a load of ridiculous changes such as no January exams and no coursework.

I just feel it's pretty ridiculous, on the no January exams thing I understand that most people don't do well in them since you're being entered to the exam early but despite this I found them extremely helpful. To give an example I sat early entry exams for all 4 of my subjects. I did great in one so that just meant I had less to worry about in Summer. The other 3 I messed up. Doesn't sound good but it really pushed me to work harder for the Summer exams whether they be resits or not.

And on the no coursework thing. Granted on some subjects such as maths and science fair enough. But in other like English, Drama and I.C.T it just makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Shorts the Environmentalist on June 26, 2013, 03:17:20 PM
I have a problem with who runs m my district, and how much the a teachers and bus drivers can get away with....they can get away with hitting me, and nobody believeing me after...( literally happened to me before) but I'm on my phone now, so I will not go into explaining till larer
Title: Re: Education
Post by: muD on June 26, 2013, 03:44:18 PM
I think the compulsory education systems beat the creative, naturally inquisitive soul out of children & teaches them to be obedient, uniform drones, rewarded mostly for efficiently reciting the knowledge they were force-fed in preparation to likely spend about a third of the rest of their life working & paying tax to the same system which offered their lack of choice to begin with.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Shorts the Environmentalist on June 26, 2013, 04:15:28 PM
Ill tell you this....your not wrong at all. They 100% do that.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Stormthorn on July 17, 2013, 09:11:39 PM
I think the compulsory education systems beat the creative, naturally inquisitive soul out of children & teaches them to be obedient, uniform drones, rewarded mostly for efficiently reciting the knowledge they were force-fed in preparation to likely spend about a third of the rest of their life working & paying tax to the same system which offered their lack of choice to begin with.

Your argument is self defeating. Either you went to public school and are living proof that the system didnt do that or you were homeschooled and thus cant speak firsthand.

Also, you could make the same argument with a positive tone, if you wanted: Mandatory education teaches restraint and responsibility to hyperactive little sociopaths and prepares children to be productive members of society, contributing in exchange for recieving.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: MountainDewIt on July 18, 2013, 11:11:39 AM
All mandatory education does is prepare you for a job. Sure I need a job, but there are so many more important things to learn. How to do taxes, how to raise a family. Now, you could say that the parents are suppose to teach you this stuff. Well what about the parents who are dead, don't care about their child, or busy constantly? How are those kids suppose to learn? Education needs to start focusing on more important things then 12-13 mandatory years of school leading up to a job.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: demman32 on July 18, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
All mandatory education does is prepare you for a job. Sure I need a job, but there are so many more important things to learn. How to do taxes, how to raise a family. Now, you could say that the parents are suppose to teach you this stuff. Well what about the parents who are dead, don't care about their child, or busy constantly? How are those kids suppose to learn? Education needs to start focusing on more important things then 12-13 mandatory years of school leading up to a job.
Without a job you don't need to pay bills, you'll be living in the streets.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: MountainDewIt on July 18, 2013, 11:17:23 AM
Without a job you don't need to pay bills, you'll be living in the streets.
Yes jobs are important, but we shouldn't spend that many years preparing for well actually College and then a job. More time needs to be spent on things that are really important.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: demman32 on July 18, 2013, 11:30:13 AM
You're telling me a job isn't important? Do you expect someone to start a family with you if you don't have a job? Do you expect to get a good home without a job? Do you expect to get a good paying job without a good education? I don't see why education gets so much hate.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: MountainDewIt on July 18, 2013, 11:55:01 AM
Yes jobs are important,but we shouldn't spend that many years preparing for well actually College and then a job. More time needs to be spent on things that are really important.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: TDi Saint on July 18, 2013, 12:54:10 PM
Education should only be preparing you for a job/higher education I'd say.

Previous generations have managed to pay taxes and raise families so I don't see why we should have it taught in schools.

They are things you learn as you go along and as you do them, not something you get out of a textbook, and even if you would rather read about it then there's no harm in a bit of independent learning.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: muD on July 18, 2013, 01:31:51 PM
Your argument is self defeating. Either you went to public school and are living proof that the system didnt do that or you were homeschooled and thus cant speak firsthand.

Also, you could make the same argument with a positive tone, if you wanted: Mandatory education teaches restraint and responsibility to hyperactive little sociopaths and prepares children to be productive members of society, contributing in exchange for recieving.
I don't dispute that in order to maintain a structure of this nature will require a form of mandatory, engineered education, which is patchwork on a old engine imo.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: DiamondBack662 on July 18, 2013, 02:58:43 PM
I'm quite thankful for my formal education. It opened many doors that otherwise would have been closed, kept me employed during even tough economic times, and has allowed more freedom in life than I'd have had under the thumb of Uncle Sugar's handout program which is nothing much more than a form of populace control or modern slavery.
I've expanded my education far beyond that which I gained in School as well. I'm constantly seeking to learn new things and in turn they lead me to new interests in life. I frankly feel sorry for anyone that doesn't seek knowledge. I think that's why so many lack purpose and direction in life. Those with tiny minds lead tiny lives. Frankly there are too many of those.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Dauntless395 on July 22, 2013, 07:06:09 PM
To the OP
I think the problem with your situation is that many K-12 grade systems (At least for the united States) do not simply teach towards knowledge. For example in the state of Florida, the FCAT is taken by students grade 3-11, who must score 3 out of 5 points total for reading, math, and science. I think grade schools teach more to the tests than to simple knowledge.

Even more prominent programs in grade school, such as the International Baccalaureate Program or the Advanced Placement courses only teach you to get a high score on the exams administered at the end of the year.

Unfortunately it would be hard to change this system. We cannot bank to the assumption that students simply learn the information provided. State budget systems depend upon test scores for standardized tests like the FCAT to determine budgeting to schools, so we would still need a statistical variable to see how schools perform.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Stormthorn on July 23, 2013, 11:33:19 PM
I can agree that teaching just to meet some standard on a specific test is a bad way of doing things.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Not Actually Atlas on September 12, 2013, 01:16:43 PM
Being out of the K-12 system now, I can look back and say that 95% of my high school classes were just repeating what my elementary school had taught. They make you do the same thing year after year, the only difference is they might use a bit bigger words. The only classes I could say I learned something in were my electives(marine biology, web design, game design, graphic design). But the teachers didn't seem to care much, they were just looking for their next paycheck. And I had one freshmen year who hated the class and halfway through each lecture would just say "I'm done, teach yourselves" and waddle back over to her desk. She even once told us to go die in an earthquake. At the end of the year party for all the other classes she showed us the chips and snacks the other classes had and told us we could just sit there for an hour until the class is over.

but now being in college, of my 3 classes it seems like 2 of the teachers actually teach things that weren't gone over in elementary school, and so far it is a much more enjoyable experience
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Xalron on October 03, 2013, 09:57:49 AM
The school system here in Texas is good for an average person, all they are going to do is go work at a desk. Thanks to several Universities and Colleges, I luckily have specialized program that allows me to learn from experience and not memorization and worksheets.

Now, I have been to many different school districts, one of which was Denton ISD. This school district classified me as Mentally macaroni saladed. Following this, I was bullied by the staff and students at the said district. I was sent to the "Alternative School for Undisciplined Children".

I'm sure y'all have seen my knowledge, and this was NOT due to schooling. It came from extensive experience in my free time. Now, I have learned some things in schooling, but not much.

I am currently a Freshman and already have a third of my high school credits and am in a College sponsored academy of Science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. This program uses "Project based learning" and allows me to learn my way.

I would say that I do have a gift for learning and am most thankful for it.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Xalron on October 03, 2013, 09:59:08 AM
The power ranger thing was superposed to be Re-tarded
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Agykoo on August 25, 2014, 01:11:42 PM
i didnt feel like starting a new topic XD ^_^

anywho, since this is about edgucation i figuered i would post it here. getting older now (i have been here for over 3 years XD). i am getting close to the point where i need to aculty start focuesing more on what i want to do with my life, and what i want to study.

the problem tho.........i have not a clue in hell what i want to do.

i am intrested in medician. but i am very worryed about where my countrys health care system is going.
like wise, if i do decied on medican, exspcaily as a doctor. then i am kinda locked into it for life. since its 4-5 years pre med. then 4 years of medical school, then 5-7 years of recadency after.
and honsilty, its not even the 8-9 years of school that worrys me, that aculty seems fun to be honist here. what scars the abosolot hell out of me, is resadencey. my brother is in it rigth now and i dont know how hes is still alive, i dont think he even knows how he is still alive.
here in amaerica some years back there where changes to how long resedents could work. it was limted to 80 hours a week and needing to have at lest 8 hours between shifts. however sadly, none of the hopistals follow this. worse, if you speak up your labeled for life and hurt your carrer. so even after his 8 years of schooling, and hes tehcnickly a doctor rigth now as hes an MD. even with that hes working 14-16+ hour shifts a day for 12 days on, then he gets 2 days off. as well as barly gettign by money wise. likewise the crap he gets, he knows hes just tehcnickly an interen to them (even tho hes a doctor), but the amoutn of hate for the first years is infathamable. hes shocked by it all, and he counts him self lucky becuse hes not even the one they come down hardist on. and inbetween the 8 hours he has form when he leaves to he has to be back, he also has to keep up with resurch.....
i dont knwo about you, but that scares me. sure maybe i am just weak and a coword, but i dont know, that just seems like to much for me to handle, even tho i really want to be a doctor.
sadly hes stuck with that for at lest his first year, suposidily it gets better after that, and even more so as the years go on. but i just dont know if i could handle that.
sure i dont need to be a doctor, but its what i want (for now).

i dont know, i guess i am just venting looking for advice. as i do have some time to decied still, but that doesint help the deep anxaity i get over this. agy hates anxaity :(

any who, what does any one think? ^_^
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Shorts the Environmentalist on August 26, 2014, 12:45:16 PM
i didnt feel like starting a new topic XD ^_^

anywho, since this is about edgucation i figuered i would post it here. getting older now (i have been here for over 3 years XD). i am getting close to the point where i need to aculty start focuesing more on what i want to do with my life, and what i want to study.

the problem tho.........i have not a clue in hell what i want to do.

i am intrested in medician. but i am very worryed about where my countrys health care system is going.
like wise, if i do decied on medican, exspcaily as a doctor. then i am kinda locked into it for life. since its 4-5 years pre med. then 4 years of medical school, then 5-7 years of recadency after.
and honsilty, its not even the 8-9 years of school that worrys me, that aculty seems fun to be honist here. what scars the abosolot hell out of me, is resadencey. my brother is in it rigth now and i dont know how hes is still alive, i dont think he even knows how he is still alive.
here in amaerica some years back there where changes to how long resedents could work. it was limted to 80 hours a week and needing to have at lest 8 hours between shifts. however sadly, none of the hopistals follow this. worse, if you speak up your labeled for life and hurt your carrer. so even after his 8 years of schooling, and hes tehcnickly a doctor rigth now as hes an MD. even with that hes working 14-16+ hour shifts a day for 12 days on, then he gets 2 days off. as well as barly gettign by money wise. likewise the crap he gets, he knows hes just tehcnickly an interen to them (even tho hes a doctor), but the amoutn of hate for the first years is infathamable. hes shocked by it all, and he counts him self lucky becuse hes not even the one they come down hardist on. and inbetween the 8 hours he has form when he leaves to he has to be back, he also has to keep up with resurch.....
i dont knwo about you, but that scares me. sure maybe i am just weak and a coword, but i dont know, that just seems like to much for me to handle, even tho i really want to be a doctor.
sadly hes stuck with that for at lest his first year, suposidily it gets better after that, and even more so as the years go on. but i just dont know if i could handle that.
sure i dont need to be a doctor, but its what i want (for now).

i dont know, i guess i am just venting looking for advice. as i do have some time to decied still, but that doesint help the deep anxaity i get over this. agy hates anxaity :(

any who, what does any one think? ^_^
I wish I could give you advice about medicare, but I just don't know anything. All I can tell you is if you find something fascinating, go ahead and do it.

I just know one thing and I want to get into the tech field. where exactly? I don't know... but I have 2-3 years to decide on that.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Agykoo on August 26, 2014, 11:19:51 PM
I wish I could give you advice about medicare, but I just don't know anything. All I can tell you is if you find something fascinating, go ahead and do it.

I just know one thing and I want to get into the tech field. where exactly? I don't know... but I have 2-3 years to decide on that.

my appolgies if you got meidcare form any thing in that wall of text, I ment medican ^_^

yea for sure I love medicain. just theres soooo many thing to do in it XD, for sure I want to aim for doctor, but then it becomes a private or military? and then form there get gets more complicated. hehe, I know I have forever to decied. its just it would be a lot more reassuring if I knew where I was going ^_^

cool on the tech field ^_^, what exsactly tech tho? computers and such?? ^_^
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Shorts the Environmentalist on August 27, 2014, 03:20:42 PM
my appolgies if you got meidcare form any thing in that wall of text, I ment medican ^_^

yea for sure I love medicain. just theres soooo many thing to do in it XD, for sure I want to aim for doctor, but then it becomes a private or military? and then form there get gets more complicated. hehe, I know I have forever to decied. its just it would be a lot more reassuring if I knew where I was going ^_^

cool on the tech field ^_^, what exsactly tech tho? computers and such?? ^_^
yeah, computers, phones, robotics, etc..

or even s=continue with my thought of me an architect or an engineer.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Gary on August 27, 2014, 11:47:00 PM
My thoughts on education:

Kindergarten and Elementary school weren't a problem for me. They are really just there to teach you the basics of how school works. And my elementary school did that. Not much else, but not much else was necessary.

Middle school was an absolute disaster. Not only was my social and emotional life the most unstable back then, but the school system was not designed to teach the student body anything whatsoever. It had the philosophy of elementary school with the structure of high school. The only classes I actually took anything out of were my math classes, but only because math in and of itself is based on how you build your knowledge up.

High school has been a give and a take for me. I enjoy learning very much. So long as 1. The subject interests me and 2. It is presented by a relate-able person who I enjoy listening to. Because most of my classes have been taught by teachers that I both admire and respect, high school has been mostly enjoyable. Mostly. There are still a handful of classes of which I have learned next to nothing, either because of the incompetence of the teachers or because of the material being uninteresting.

College I have no comment on.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Shorts the Environmentalist on August 28, 2014, 04:43:42 PM
My thoughts on education:

Kindergarten and Elementary school weren't a problem for me. They are really just there to teach you the basics of how school works. And my elementary school did that. Not much else, but not much else was necessary.

Middle school was an absolute disaster. Not only was my social and emotional life the most unstable back then, but the school system was not designed to teach the student body anything whatsoever. It had the philosophy of elementary school with the structure of high school. The only classes I actually took anything out of were my math classes, but only because math in and of itself is based on how you build your knowledge up.

High school has been a give and a take for me. I enjoy learning very much. So long as 1. The subject interests me and 2. It is presented by a relate-able person who I enjoy listening to. Because most of my classes have been taught by teachers that I both admire and respect, high school has been mostly enjoyable. Mostly. There are still a handful of classes of which I have learned next to nothing, either because of the incompetence of the teachers or because of the material being uninteresting.

College I have no comment on.
lol this is how I went through with my life.

One problem this year at my high school is adding a thing called "E-Block" - Its a 40 minute session dedicated to students who can just do makeup work or tests in a class. they have a home class but can be assigned to classes if they have to do work for one of their classes. The downside is your home class you have to be in for at least 1 time a week, and if you don't have anywhere to go, you stay at your home class. Now you're stuck with the same kids for 4 years, for me its 3 because it started this year but im already a sophomore, And they put me in a class full of kids who have harassed and bullied me throughout elementary and middle school............ so I easily plan on switching out of that Eblock class.

Another problem is me needing to bus to the other high school for a class. CADD (Computer-Aided Drafting and Design). I only get 1 hour to be in the class because of how the bus schedule works, instead of a typical 1 hour and 20 minutes. Soooo that sucks... this class is a first block class, but I apparently can NOT get a ride to the other high school in the morning for some apparent reason..... a little depressing (thanks trashua school district).

Title: Re: Education
Post by: RF In The Jet on March 28, 2016, 11:47:38 PM
Been a while since this has been replied to, but no need to start a new topic when there is already one here.


My thoughts on the education system, at least in Canada (probably all of NA, I live close enough to the states to be affected by theyre education system) is that sk-12 is an absolute joke. The education system USED to be about learning and teaching students how to do their work. Teaching students how to manage their time, be responsible, work hard - now, all the education system system is doing is teach students how to cheat the system, and get through life with out doing anything to earn that success.

Teachers ARE NOT ALLOWED to fail students in grade/high school anymore. a student can not hand in any work all semester, not show up 35 times, do no work, and still pass because of the initiative education programs. The government has basically said students get their 12 (14) years of education, and that is it. they will not spend money on any more. Therefore, the teachers are forced to pass every student.

dont do work? doesnt matter, youll still pass. what does this teach the kids of this generation? There are kids in grade 12 who do not know what 16/2 is - i can tell you this from personal experience. Our education system only cares about money, and soon the kids going through it will be out in the real world, having jobs that they shouldnt.

Years ago high school had said F**K the rules, we are still going to fail kids, this is high school, kids can fail, it isnt grade school anymore. but theyve succumbed the gov'ts orders. Now Universities are the ones saying they wont stand down, but they will. soon enough theyll dumbdown the system too so anyone can pass.

Our education system has become about money, and not pure student education in its purity. it is depressing.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Gary on March 29, 2016, 12:52:54 AM
Since I've now lived long enough to experience college I'll voice my opinion on my experience so far:

Mind you, I'm going to community college, so what I'm paying for isn't putting me thousands of dollars in debt, but I honestly  feel like I could attend school for the next 20 years of my life and enjoy every minute of it.

Learning about all these different subjects, even ones that I didn't think I'd enjoy, like geography, have become fun and easy. Its all just a matter of working hard and having a good English professor (essay writing is a huge component of pretty much every class, except math courses).

I love that some profs aren't afraid to teach us like adults, cause we are.

I love that there's so much freedom, in the profs you pick, the hours you're there, and the courses you take.

But most of all, I love the teacher student dynamic. This semester I lucked out with two of my profs, in English and Geography. Both of them, while they have really challenging courses, give great feedback, and are available to talk inside and outside of class pretty much all day. Most professors are like that, at least in my experience, and its something that I feel is pretty unique to college.

Also, for the first time in my life, I feel like I'm really learning something. Not just memorizing formulas and following formats, but I feel like I'm challenging myself and thinking critically.

I love college.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Dryym on March 29, 2016, 07:13:00 AM
Been a while since this has been replied to, but no need to start a new topic when there is already one here.


My thoughts on the education system, at least in Canada (probably all of NA, I live close enough to the states to be affected by theyre education system) is that sk-12 is an absolute joke. The education system USED to be about learning and teaching students how to do their work. Teaching students how to manage their time, be responsible, work hard - now, all the education system system is doing is teach students how to cheat the system, and get through life with out doing anything to earn that success.

Teachers ARE NOT ALLOWED to fail students in grade/high school anymore. a student can not hand in any work all semester, not show up 35 times, do no work, and still pass because of the initiative education programs. The government has basically said students get their 12 (14) years of education, and that is it. they will not spend money on any more. Therefore, the teachers are forced to pass every student.

dont do work? doesnt matter, youll still pass. what does this teach the kids of this generation? There are kids in grade 12 who do not know what 16/2 is - i can tell you this from personal experience. Our education system only cares about money, and soon the kids going through it will be out in the real world, having jobs that they shouldnt.

Years ago high school had said F**K the rules, we are still going to fail kids, this is high school, kids can fail, it isnt grade school anymore. but theyve succumbed the gov'ts orders. Now Universities are the ones saying they wont stand down, but they will. soon enough theyll dumbdown the system too so anyone can pass.

Our education system has become about money, and not pure student education in its purity. it is depressing.

Can I just say, That is honestly one of the most horrifying things I've ever heard.

And even if it weren't horrifying, It doesn't seem efficient either.
It looks like they are thinking short term, Rather than long term.

Paying for a child's education is like investing in their future.
Sure they are saving money now, But if the kids can't hold a job due to lack of actual education, Then they get less of a return on their investment in the long run.

If they take their time, And invest in proper education for the kids, They may have less money in the short term, But they'd make a much bigger return on their investment.


But by far the biggest problem I see is people getting jobs they aren't qualified for.

Can you imagine if someone was hired for an underwater welding job, But they didn't know how to dive, Or weld?
What about electricians who know nothing about wiring a house?

Where does it end, Cashiers who can't do math and give out their best guess in change?

It's just stupid.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: crazytater94 on March 29, 2016, 07:13:11 AM
In school, I learned to read, write, etc. The basics stuck with me, which I feel that makes elementary school a mandatory need.

Middle school is where they introduced me to history and science as special study areas. I passed history with 110% and science with 93%. All I remember is that the black plague was caused by rats and that scalpels are sharp.

With that being said, it was useless information to me and I don't feel that unless you plan to get a career in those areas, that they shouldn't be mandatory. History can teach us a lot, but there is so many things that we don't need to learn. Give us the main points and be done with it.

In middle school, I learned that woodshop, home economics, and art class was taken out because it was deemed "not necessary"...

...those were 3 classes that I would have loved. They would each have been more beneficial to me that science or history.

In highschool. Chemistry, statistics, advanced algebra, algebra 2, calculus, Spanish, biology, and earth science did me no good. I was good at math, now I remember maybe 10% of it. With a good portion of those being mandatory, it made it hard to focus on the subjects that I did good in or was interested in.

P.E., was graded as so. If you dressed in shorts of the school color and a t shirt, you get a "C". Period. Next, you get a "B" if you do that, and show up. You get an "A" if you participate. That did not teach me one thing, other than when you run a mile, don't sprint the first 2 laps.

Art class taught me what a medium is, shading, and color balance... Which I figured out on my own before I was 8. If applied right, art would be a great class. Instead, you get taught terms and stuff that doesn't make you a good artist. A good artist is made through practice.

Lastly, a vast majority of how effective the learning process is, is how it is presented. If you are a visual learner, you learn from seeing it done. Not reading a book. The teachers should be more into the subject that they are teaching. I had a chemistry teacher that blew stuff up every other day, kissed roaches, and had a real dino skeleton in his class. This guy was freaking cool, and he made it fun. That's how you learn. My Algebra 2 teacher played metal solos on his guitar during class and his lecture on vectors... Was about the gun "Vector" from CoD MW2.

The way the government thinks school should be ran is dead wrong.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: crazytater94 on March 29, 2016, 07:17:29 AM
I also don't agree with the fact that you need a paper that says what you can do, in order for someone to want anything to do with you.

I can do any kind of art(and well) and I've done construction, yet I won't get hired for any of those unless I buy a paper with 4 years and $80,000+ that says I can.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Dryym on March 29, 2016, 07:29:38 AM
In school, I learned to read, write, etc. The basics stuck with me, which I feel that makes elementary school a mandatory need.

Middle school is where they introduced me to history and science as special study areas. I passed history with 110% and science with 93%. All I remember is that the black plague was caused by rats and that scalpels are sharp.

With that being said, it was useless information to me and I don't feel that unless you plan to get a career in those areas, that they shouldn't be mandatory. History can teach us a lot, but there is so many things that we don't need to learn. Give us the main points and be done with it.

In middle school, I learned that woodshop, home economics, and art class was taken out because it was deemed "not necessary"...

...those were 3 classes that I would have loved. They would each have been more beneficial to me that science or history.

In highschool. Chemistry, statistics, advanced algebra, algebra 2, calculus, Spanish, biology, and earth science did me no good. I was good at math, now I remember maybe 10% of it. With a good portion of those being mandatory, it made it hard to focus on the subjects that I did good in or was interested in.

P.E., was graded as so. If you dressed in shorts of the school color and a t shirt, you get a "C". Period. Next, you get a "B" if you do that, and show up. You get an "A" if you participate. That did not teach me one thing, other than when you run a mile, don't sprint the first 2 laps.

Art class taught me what a medium is, shading, and color balance... Which I figured out on my own before I was 8. If applied right, art would be a great class. Instead, you get taught terms and stuff that doesn't make you a good artist. A good artist is made through practice.

Lastly, a vast majority of how effective the learning process is, is how it is presented. If you are a visual learner, you learn from seeing it done. Not reading a book. The teachers should be more into the subject that they are teaching. I had a chemistry teacher that blew stuff up every other day, kissed roaches, and had a real dino skeleton in his class. This guy was freaking cool, and he made it fun. That's how you learn. My Algebra 2 teacher played metal solos on his guitar during class and his lecture on vectors... Was about the gun "Vector" from CoD MW2.

The way the government thinks school should be ran is dead wrong.

This is exactly how I think of it.
They should focus on people retaining the information you give them, Not just giving it out.

It's a fact that people remember things better if they have a strong memory tied to it, That is why people often make up songs to remember things.


If teachers focused on retention, And making things fun, Then people would not only like school better, But they would actually learn things.


As for what you said about history, I disagree with teaching the main points.

By this I don't mean teach all of human history, I mean to teach the parts of history that you can learn from, And teach it right.

Especially teach the history that can be prevented from happening again.
We don't want more bloody civil wars, Do we?

You know the saying, If you don't learn from history, You're doomed to repeat it.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: RF In The Jet on March 29, 2016, 08:14:57 AM
The thing that annoys me the most often times is people blame teachers for student short comings. People think that is the teacher's fault their is not doing well, or didnt learn what they should have, but in reality it is the government.

Basically what is happening is if a student fails, the government will not want to fund that kid anymore. and if a teacher decides, "hey screw what the gov't thinks, I will still fail kids" the teacher will lose sections in his/her specialty. not able to teach your section? not able to teach. not able to teach? well there goes your income. Basically the Gov't has made it like failure=lowered income.

Now the universities are still saying, hey we can fail people, and with tuition costs we dont need to worry a lot about the gov't funding. But here's the thing, soon enough one or two universities will start to let things slide, lower their standards, and once they do - every one will. Why would a student go to a university that has a high failure rate, when they can go to one the has a great success rate. Soon it will become "where can I pass the easiest" as opposed to "where will i learn the most for my field".

The education system scares me, and we need a complete and total reform of the whole system to save it.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Nefty on March 29, 2016, 09:49:12 AM


Been a while since this has been replied to, but no need to start a new topic when there is already one here.


My thoughts on the education system, at least in Canada (probably all of NA, I live close enough to the states to be affected by theyre education system) is that sk-12 is an absolute joke. The education system USED to be about learning and teaching students how to do their work. Teaching students how to manage their time, be responsible, work hard - now, all the education system system is doing is teach students how to cheat the system, and get through life with out doing anything to earn that success.

Teachers ARE NOT ALLOWED to fail students in grade/high school anymore. a student can not hand in any work all semester, not show up 35 times, do no work, and still pass because of the initiative education programs. The government has basically said students get their 12 (14) years of education, and that is it. they will not spend money on any more. Therefore, the teachers are forced to pass every student.

dont do work? doesnt matter, youll still pass. what does this teach the kids of this generation? There are kids in grade 12 who do not know what 16/2 is - i can tell you this from personal experience. Our education system only cares about money, and soon the kids going through it will be out in the real world, having jobs that they shouldnt.

Years ago high school had said F**K the rules, we are still going to fail kids, this is high school, kids can fail, it isnt grade school anymore. but theyve succumbed the gov'ts orders. Now Universities are the ones saying they wont stand down, but they will. soon enough theyll dumbdown the system too so anyone can pass.

Our education system has become about money, and not pure student education in its purity. it is depressing.


This is why our generation demands $15 minimum wage for a job that a computer could do. You get everything handed to you then expect that to continue. Why most of my arguments against poverty reside around education. Obviously not everyone is going to be the king of industry, and someone has to be at the bottom of the foodchain. But it's better to make a level playing field. Schools and the education system in general needs a massive overhaul.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Not Actually Atlas on March 29, 2016, 11:32:35 AM


Been a while since this has been replied to, but no need to start a new topic when there is already one here.


My thoughts on the education system, at least in Canada (probably all of NA, I live close enough to the states to be affected by theyre education system) is that sk-12 is an absolute joke. The education system USED to be about learning and teaching students how to do their work. Teaching students how to manage their time, be responsible, work hard - now, all the education system system is doing is teach students how to cheat the system, and get through life with out doing anything to earn that success.

Teachers ARE NOT ALLOWED to fail students in grade/high school anymore. a student can not hand in any work all semester, not show up 35 times, do no work, and still pass because of the initiative education programs. The government has basically said students get their 12 (14) years of education, and that is it. they will not spend money on any more. Therefore, the teachers are forced to pass every student.

dont do work? doesnt matter, youll still pass. what does this teach the kids of this generation? There are kids in grade 12 who do not know what 16/2 is - i can tell you this from personal experience. Our education system only cares about money, and soon the kids going through it will be out in the real world, having jobs that they shouldnt.

Years ago high school had said F**K the rules, we are still going to fail kids, this is high school, kids can fail, it isnt grade school anymore. but theyve succumbed the gov'ts orders. Now Universities are the ones saying they wont stand down, but they will. soon enough theyll dumbdown the system too so anyone can pass.

Our education system has become about money, and not pure student education in its purity. it is depressing.


This is why our generation demands $15 minimum wage for a job that a computer could do. You get everything handed to you then expect that to continue. Why most of my arguments against poverty reside around education. Obviously not everyone is going to be the king of industry, and someone has to be at the bottom of the foodchain. But it's better to make a level playing field. Schools and the education system in general needs a massive overhaul.
I guess it is too much to ask for a livable minium wage...

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/you-cant-rent-a-one-bedroom-apartment-anywhere-in-america-on-a-minimum-wage-job/

Even if the job can be done "by a computer" it isn't. It is being done by living, human beings who are just trying to get by. If you cannot afford to pay your employees a minimum wage, just have the blueberrying computer do it.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: crazytater94 on March 29, 2016, 12:09:56 PM
@dryym, when I said main points of history, I meant stuff like the Holocaust and the founding of your nation. Stuff you can learn from and it is necessary to know.

But stuff about a guy who ruled in Europe 300 years ago... Smitty something or other...
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Not Actually Atlas on March 29, 2016, 01:08:02 PM
@dryym, when I said main points of history, I meant stuff like the Holocaust and the founding of your nation. Stuff you can learn from and it is necessary to know.

But stuff about a guy who ruled in Europe 300 years ago... Smitty something or other...
I still think most history is important. A class I took that I really thought was enlightening was Western Civilization. It taught about the the rise and fall of the Greek and roman empires, the way the countries that make up Europe were founded, and the birth and spread of Christianity, among other things. And although it isn't needed, learning about where alot of the ideas that run our daily lives comes from is very important imo.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Dryym on March 29, 2016, 01:17:08 PM
@dryym, when I said main points of history, I meant stuff like the Holocaust and the founding of your nation. Stuff you can learn from and it is necessary to know.

But stuff about a guy who ruled in Europe 300 years ago... Smitty something or other...
I still think most history is important. A class I took that I really thought was enlightening was Western Civilization. It taught about the the rise and fall of the Greek and roman empires, the way the countries that make up Europe were founded, and the birth and spread of Christianity, among other things. And although it isn't needed, learning about where alot of the ideas that run our daily lives comes from is very important imo.

I think what tater is saying is that they should teach us the necessities, Those who enjoy history, Or the way they were taught history will want to further their knowledge.

Some things are nice to know, And may even teach you valuable life lessons, But it isn't all necessary.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Gary on March 29, 2016, 01:55:29 PM
I also don't agree with the fact that you need a paper that says what you can do, in order for someone to want anything to do with you.

I can do any kind of art(and well) and I've done construction, yet I won't get hired for any of those unless I buy a paper with 4 years and $80,000+ that says I can.

From a hiring managers point of view, it makes sense that they want to make sure that you're as good as you say they are, and having experience and/or a degree can act as assurance. This applies to any job.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Dryym on March 29, 2016, 02:16:49 PM
I also don't agree with the fact that you need a paper that says what you can do, in order for someone to want anything to do with you.

I can do any kind of art(and well) and I've done construction, yet I won't get hired for any of those unless I buy a paper with 4 years and $80,000+ that says I can.

From a hiring managers point of view, it makes sense that they want to make sure that you're as good as you say they are, and having experience and/or a degree can act as assurance. This applies to any job.

That would be true in normal circumstances, But as RF stated, Where he lives, And possibly many other places, Nobody will be failed in their education. So people would be getting a degree that really doesn't mean anything.

I agree with tater partially. You shouldn't NEED to have a degree to be able to have certain careers (Not talking about things like lawyers, Or doctors.) so long as it can be determined that you are qualified for the job.


However, If it is a job with plenty of qualified people lining up, Logically you wouldn't want to waste time making sure the guy without the degree is qualified, You'd just hire the best guy out of the guys with degrees.


But if a degree in basic education is becoming as meaningless as it seems, It doesn't even matter.

They will have to do a better job in making sure people are qualified anyway.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Gary on March 29, 2016, 06:15:02 PM
@Drymm,

People can be failed in college where RF lives, and anywhere else. I think you misread his post. He was talking about high school and grade school.

As I said, experience is another consideration. If you lack one of the following (a degree, or practical experience) then you most likely won't be considered for a position at a job that requires skilled labor.

Also, there are plenty of jobs that don't require college degrees and pay a living wage, even out here in the Bay Area. It's just that these occupations are usually not favorable.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Dryym on March 29, 2016, 06:43:28 PM


@Drymm,

People can be failed in college where RF lives, and anywhere else. I think you misread his post. He was talking about high school and grade school.

As I said, experience is another consideration. If you lack one of the following (a degree, or practical experience) then you most likely won't be considered for a position at a job that requires skilled labor.

Also, there are plenty of jobs that don't require college degrees and pay a living wage, even out here in the Bay Area. It's just that these occupations are usually not favorable.

For now.

Now the universities are still saying, hey we can fail people, and with tuition costs we dont need to worry a lot about the gov't funding. But here's the thing, soon enough one or two universities will start to let things slide, lower their standards, and once they do - every one will. Why would a student go to a university that has a high failure rate, when they can go to one the has a great success rate. Soon it will become "where can I pass the easiest" as opposed to "where will i learn the most for my field".

The education system scares me, and we need a complete and total reform of the whole system to save it.

As he said here, It's only a matter of time before one gives in and people start abusing the system.


IMO, Nothing beats actual experience. And if/when people start abusing the system, That'll have to be what employers will have to go by in their decisions.

A degree in any field is hardly an indicator of anything if you didn't work for it.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Gary on March 30, 2016, 12:00:50 AM
The thing about a college degree is that you do work for it. It involves work. It's college, not kindergarten. Sure, everything you learn isn't all practical, and so when you enter into the work force you'll still lack a lot of knowledge, but you'll have the basics down, and you'll have evidence for employers that you're willing to stick with something for at least 4-8 years.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: crazytater94 on March 30, 2016, 12:11:18 AM
If they want evidence of me sticking with something for a long time, they should just look at my total miner hours ;)
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Not Actually Atlas on March 30, 2016, 01:37:52 AM
If they want evidence of me sticking with something for a long time, they should just look at my total miner hours ;)
If they looked at mine, they would hire me instead