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Total Miner => Total Miner Discussion => Topic started by: Nefty on January 13, 2016, 10:05:29 PM

Title: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 13, 2016, 10:05:29 PM
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-Alright its going to take me awhile to get my argument across, but id ask you read it completely before you comment. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with this idea/opinion, and i'd love feedback. Please don't fill the thread with +1 -1's cause they aren't helpful. I will also be comparing Survival and Dig Deep to Minecraft, a lot. I know a lot of members of the forums don't like having TM compared to Minecraft, but its one of the few games that is the same if not better than TM in a direct comparison. I'd also like to apologize for any spelling/grammar mistakes in advance. With that said, lets get into this.

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Alright, so from the title you can tell I am petitioning (if you can call it that) for a complete and utter overhaul of the survival and dig deep game modes of the game. Yes I know those are major changes, but I will tell you why in just a moment.

#1) For me survival is way way way too easy. #1 reason being the economy, the block shops, the item shops. The ability to mine X amounts of a certain block to buy a picaxe/tool. The point is that the economy of TM destroys the entire aspect of crafting/smelting. Minecrafts survival mode is based of of leveling up though tiers of tools (wood mines stone, stone mines iron, iron mines diamond, etc...) and causes you to immerse yourself into the gameplay. Total Miner however does no such thing. At some point, you build a square wooden house, mine a bunch of trees, and start making ladders, selling them, making more, and then repeat. After 30 minutes of doing nothing in game but pressing 5 buttons, you have amassed enough coin to purchase a picaxe or other high tool that would've taken hours to get through actual gameplay. Just Youtube it, there are so many exploits on the economic system in TM. Now before you go off saying "but Nefty, the gold pieces are important to TM, they make it unique" Absolutely. My counter argument is that prices should be jacked way way up. Make it so that actually playing the game you payed $3 for is faster and easier than standing behind a single block for half an hour. Look at deathmatches (yes im using a deathmatch to make my point). You cant stand by the block/item shops and sell your way to the top like it was the NASDAQ, you have to play the map. While most make you mindlessly mine blocks, the vanilla version of TM could improve on that. Adventure for treasure chests is already a large part of it. By making ores and other precious blocks easier to be obtained when going caving, it gives the player the need, no, the want to go caving.

#2) Biome generation is flawed. I don't know much about the hardware or technology behind it, but choosing one biome to play your map in is a complete disappointment. Biome generation is iffy, with the exception of Desert which I love, but when you're stuck in one biome your entire experience it dulls down the excitement. Imagine playing CoD multiplayer on one map! Once again where Minecraft flourish, the ability to make villages and other structures to exclusive to certain biomes when playing was awesome! I always had a desert and snow castle when I played. Anyway, point is, multiple Biomes per map would make Survival/DD experience so much more enjoyable.

#3) Those pesky pesky blue prints. Now I actually love blue prints, very interesting take on the game mode. My problem comes with their spawn. When you spend most of your gameplay experience running around looking for blue prints, it takes away from the overall fun. Its rather annoying when you are trying to craft/build and then you don't have the blue print, so you spend endless amount of time looking for that one blueprint, only to find a "steel claymore." I get it that its part of the experience, but how many players actually want to roam around looking for them? They're the only reason I would ever go down in caves in DD, because like I said in #1, and I will talking about caves soon. I would counter with a different idea for researching items. Almost like a blue print, however you have to have a set of items crafted. For instance to craft an Iron Pc, you need to have made a Wood Pic, Wood Axe, maybe like a Wood Bow? Basically so its not just wham bam thank you ma'am now I know how to make a.... "iron hoe?" Well that's not useful.

#4) Caves. Minecrafts caves are glorious. Caves upon caves running into more caves dropping into ravines with lava. TM, well not so much. Caves are most often one giant pathway, very rarely running into each other. Not to mention the ugly pools of water and lava that still dot the caverns, they make no sense now that there is water physics. Ores are few and far between, and without your Map HUD on good luck find a substantial amount. And they also end abruptly, oh you were getting interested? Getting to Diorite level? Congrats, for all that time you spent moving forward, you have achieved nothing. Caverns need to have more ores, more diversity, more excitement. The game is called Total Miner yet has very few amounts of mining going on.

#5) Skills. What was once the Titanic on paper, turned into well, the titanic in game. Skills went from a great way to introduce RPG maps in a more effective way, and to add another challenge to Survival based game modes, turned into hours of grinding. When they came out I taped my controller down in various locations and went to chipotle with my friends, came back and I was a level 5 miner. Point in case, Skill revamp. I know they're not mandatory, and if you don't want to grind for hours don't play with it on. Except, I like the extra challenge of having to had mined a certain amount to get the next series of tools. This could even tie into what I said in step 3 with researching, maybe need a certain skill level to research new tools. Anyway, I fell as if things are too spaced out in skills, too far of jumps between tools and blocks. Skills should challenge, yet compliment the player. Not force them into hours of grinding away.

#6) Biome Generation: The Sequel. This portion I will be discussing individual biomes. I have no problems with Desert, if anyone does please feel free to post them. Semi-Alpine is an average biome. The beaches surrounding the lakes are just ugly, they're usually 1-2 blocks wide and just fit right. And they land mass always falls the water level perfectly, no ledges, no cliffs, nothing. The landscape if very smooth, and I really don't like it. Another thing I cant stand is in grasslands, the landscape of pure grass is just ugly as well. I guess with multiple biomes per map it could look better, but it looks awful. "But Nefty, its grasslands, shouldn't it all be grass." You're absolutely right! But even the great plains have variations. The lakes/ponds especially are ugly, 1-3 blocks deep and always small just bugs me. The point Im making is to add more variation to Biome Generation.

#7) Those damned Trees. Trees look great, especially from the new update. But when you mine all the woods blocks, the leaves remain in the same spot! It looks awful seeing flying leaves everywhere! Then the shaded grass....? You cut down a tree, and remove its leaves, yet the grass remains shaded? The texture on all 4 main textures look awful, and just doesn't fit. And saplings could actually fall from trees without them being cut down? Oddly enough trees reproduce while alive.

#8) Generated Structures! Not absolutely necessary, but a wide open landscape can be rather dull if not done right. A few buildings, villages, castles, towers, etc... mixed in would really spice up a lot of the game!

#9) Better Ranged Mechanics (From Dryym)
I think that TM's ranged mechanics need to be worked on, As currently the arrows feel like they are floating in space when you shoot them. It isn't really that fun because it's ridiculous to try to hit someone.

I also think that the different bow types should be completely different from the others, Thus not making the lower level bows obsolete, Let's leave progression to the arrows.

First off, All bows would have a draw weight, This would determine the power, And speed of the arrow, But also determines the time it takes to pull the bow string back, And how long the bow can be held back.

Second off, Specialty arrows (Boom, Fire, And Ice) should be heavier, And thus have less range then conventional arrows.

Finally, The higher your strength level, The faster you can pull the bow string back, And the longer you can hold it back.

Ok, Let's get on to the different types of bows.


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Wood Bow: This is your starting bow, It looks like a simple longbow, So it would have an average draw weight. Meaning that it would have decent draw speed, And holding time for beginners. A good, Cheap all around bow.

Gold Bow: I'm not entirely sure what the gold bow looks like, So I'm guessing it's stats. It would have a light draw weight, Not having much power or range, But being able to fire faster then all other bows.

Spider Bow: The Spider bow looks like a (Very crazy) Recurve bow, So it would probably have a lighter draw weight then the longbow, But due to it's design it would transfer it's energy more efficiently, Resulting in range and damage more than the gold bow, But less then the longing.

Troll Bow: The Troll Bow looks like a really beefy longbow, So it would have a really heavy draw weight, Meaning that it would have much greater power and range then all of the other bows, But at the cost of a really slow draw speed which can't be held for very long at all.

Titanium Bow: The Titanium Bow looks like a modern compound bow. So it would have a draw weight slightly heavier then the longbow, Meaning more power and range with a slower draw speed, But it can be held at full draw for longer due to it's modern design.

Elven Bow: The Elven Bow looks similar to a longbow, But has the special infinite ammo bonus. As such, I think it should have a draw weight in between the compound, And Troll bows. Favouring power over speed.

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Possibly more to be added. Please be respectful in the comments and feel free to agree/disagree and add your comments on the thread, Thanks!
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Bunz on January 13, 2016, 10:14:07 PM
This is the kind of stuff I wish TM had while taking a shower. TM needs this really bad.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Craig on January 13, 2016, 10:50:30 PM
Great post Nefty. I'll keep an eye on it and prune any stupidity.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Dark Hydrak on January 13, 2016, 11:08:16 PM
I can agree with everything on here.

This is why I dislike survival/dig deep. Its too boring. It needs more epic sprinkled everywhere.

I would LOVE to see features that add to the sense of Adventure, Danger, and a Goal(*cough* Boss *cough*)
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: xTokioBeatlex7 on January 13, 2016, 11:21:05 PM
I would actually play more survival or DD if these were implemented. No objections here.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Gary on January 13, 2016, 11:36:11 PM
I can't agree enough with the OP.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: MLG Zombiez on January 13, 2016, 11:39:15 PM
Yeah, the shops are to OP.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jakub34 on January 13, 2016, 11:44:22 PM
Now what if Dig deep and survival let us go to space XD Anyways good ideas ;)
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Craig on January 14, 2016, 12:25:43 AM
Just a comment from me to give people an idea why things are as they are regarding DD and Survival.

The reason is simply a time choice.

I'm aware the DD and Survival game modes and the biomes require overhauling, but I've been putting it off in order to add game play features that I feel help to differentiate the game from Minecraft. If I had instead spent the time overhauling Survival and biomes,  then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Once I'm happy the differentiating features are close to where I want them, and we are getting close to that point, I will start to allocate some time to Survival and biomes.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Rev Elevenclaw on January 14, 2016, 01:07:37 AM
I love DD. I have been playing on the same map for 2 years. I think of DD maps as a creative experience that you have to earn. I can agree that some skill/item jumps are a bit much and perhaps some pricing, but to change any core aspect of DD would be a terrible idea. I have taken the time needed to be a master of economizing, zoning, building, and now I am endevouring to master scripts. TMF is one of my favorite games because of DD. Sure, I could have done it all in creative, and more, but with a severely lessened sense of accomplishment. I will say that I feel survival shouldn't have shops at all. I remember playing my 'world of the beast map' on DD, legendary, with survival aspect. No mini map and the shops were extremely limited on everything. No that was survival! I still have it but the 2.0 update unlocked the shop inventory, spiders don't spawn from the trees, and the sky isn't red. It did the same to my moon map. But they are unique maps so I keep them. Please don't mutilate DD...
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Gary on January 14, 2016, 01:16:12 AM
to change any core aspect of DD would be a terrible idea

I think that, ideally, it would be best to improve on the current mechanics rather than get rid of them.

Sure, this might involve change. Hell, it might even involve full blown overhauls, but while change can sometimes be a difficult thing to approach, in this case I think it'd be better for the game and would make it more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Rev Elevenclaw on January 14, 2016, 03:15:46 AM
I suppose so. I host my DD map often and many people have gotten to enjoy the feel of what is possible once you have put the work in. I run a kingdom, fueled by people selling loot from killing mobs and working the jobs I have set up. Once they gain some success, I have homes available. Nothing all that new, but I did it in DD. I believe DD is for patient gamers that don't mind having to hunt down blueprints and mine or otherwise earn materials for builds and such. Personally, I enjoy it. Oh and for the record... There are a lot of aspects I like but, MC is for kiddies. In my opinion, TMF blows it away with what u can do! Not not to mention MC multiplayer is limited. I have had over 900 visitors to my map. And being able to protect your map with zoning... invaluable to someone like me with 900 hours logged in 1 world.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Dryym on January 14, 2016, 06:50:05 AM
I think that Blueprints should allow a choice on what to learn how to craft.
In addition, There would be multiple tiers of blueprints that correspond to different items.

You also should not be able to research something until you have researched all of it's ingredients, And the tiers before it.

So in order to craft troll hide armour, You have to have researched leather armour first.



On the surface you would find tier 1 BPs, To craft iron stuff and wood stuff.

Then you go down and find T2 BPs, Then T3 BPs, Etc.
You still have to find every BP to craft everything, But you get to choose what path you want to take with them.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: AlienizdPixel on January 14, 2016, 06:58:41 AM
Just a comment from me to give people an idea why things are as they are regarding DD and Survival.

The reason is simply a time choice.

I'm aware the DD and Survival game modes and the biomes require overhauling, but I've been putting it off in order to add game play features that I feel help to differentiate the game from Minecraft. If I had instead spent the time overhauling Survival and biomes,  then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Once I'm happy the differentiating features are close to where I want them, and we are getting close to that point, I will start to allocate some time to Survival and biomes.
Could you possibly give a list of what you would want to add before revamping Survival/DD?
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Gary on January 14, 2016, 03:35:44 PM
I think that Blueprints should allow a choice on what to learn how to craft.
In addition, There would be multiple tiers of blueprints that correspond to different items.

You also should not be able to research something until you have researched all of it's ingredients, And the tiers before it.

So in order to craft troll hide armour, You have to have researched leather armour first.



On the surface you would find tier 1 BPs, To craft iron stuff and wood stuff.

Then you go down and find T2 BPs, Then T3 BPs, Etc.
You still have to find every BP to craft everything, But you get to choose what path you want to take with them.

This could happen by having blueprints attached to semi-randomly generated dungeons.

Say, in order to collect your blueprints for iron weapons/tools/armor, you'll need to raid a goblin camp.

And in order to get steel you must siege a castle and kill the King.

Etc.

This is definitely possible, with the new NPC AI.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 14, 2016, 04:03:57 PM
Oh my, to start off I didn't expect so many great responses! Ill be responding to everyone's consatructive comments on this post. Anyone who commented I agree or good post thank you!!

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Now what if Dig deep and survival let us go to space XD Anyways good ideas ;)

Possibly, maybe a type of device needs to be crafted to reach a moon style map. Like how you need ender eyes for an ender portal.

I'm aware the DD and Survival game modes and the biomes require overhauling, but I've been putting it off in order to add game play features that I feel help to differentiate the game from Minecraft. If I had instead spent the time overhauling Survival and biomes,  then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Once I'm happy the differentiating features are close to where I want them, and we are getting close to that point, I will start to allocate some time to Survival and biomes.

Absolutely, I think TM's creative mode really blew a lot of people expectations out of the water. Especially with these new additions TM's creative gives Minecrafts creative mode a run for its money. But I think that the biomes and survival features could be changed to compete with minecrafts. Obviously TM is no triple AAA game, but with what the community has at the moment, I think it could be done.

I love DD. I have been playing on the same map for 2 years. I think of DD maps as a creative experience that you have to earn. I can agree that some skill/item jumps are a bit much and perhaps some pricing, but to change any core aspect of DD would be a terrible idea. I have taken the time needed to be a master of economizing, zoning, building, and now I am endevouring to master scripts. TMF is one of my favorite games because of DD. Sure, I could have done it all in creative, and more, but with a severely lessened sense of accomplishment. I will say that I feel survival shouldn't have shops at all. I remember playing my 'world of the beast map' on DD, legendary, with survival aspect. No mini map and the shops were extremely limited on everything. No that was survival! I still have it but the 2.0 update unlocked the shop inventory, spiders don't spawn from the trees, and the sky isn't red. It did the same to my moon map. But they are unique maps so I keep them. Please don't mutilate DD...

Obviously you have had some great experience with the DD game mode, but it seems most of what you're saying comes from past experience. No doubt DD was fun for many people, I had great fun when I first purchased the game as well. But the overhaul DD needs requires a lot of that to be changed. Im fully confident you'll have just as, if not more fun with new additions to the game mode.

I suppose so. I host my DD map often and many people have gotten to enjoy the feel of what is possible once you have put the work in. I run a kingdom, fueled by people selling loot from killing mobs and working the jobs I have set up. Once they gain some success, I have homes available. Nothing all that new, but I did it in DD. I believe DD is for patient gamers that don't mind having to hunt down blueprints and mine or otherwise earn materials for builds and such. Personally, I enjoy it. Oh and for the record... There are a lot of aspects I like but, MC is for kiddies. In my opinion, TMF blows it away with what u can do! Not not to mention MC multiplayer is limited. I have had over 900 visitors to my map. And being able to protect your map with zoning... invaluable to someone like me with 900 hours logged in 1 world.

Ditto. Most of the additions would be just that, additions. Obviously some things go and some things come in to replace them, but they definitely will make the game mode improve.

I think that Blueprints should allow a choice on what to learn how to craft.
In addition, There would be multiple tiers of blueprints that correspond to different items.

You also should not be able to research something until you have researched all of it's ingredients, And the tiers before it.

So in order to craft troll hide armour, You have to have researched leather armour first.



On the surface you would find tier 1 BPs, To craft iron stuff and wood stuff.

Then you go down and find T2 BPs, Then T3 BPs, Etc.
You still have to find every BP to craft everything, But you get to choose what path you want to take with them.

Dryym this is exactly how I pictured the system in my head. Great way of explaining it! I might add it to the OP! ;)

This could happen by having blueprints attached to semi-randomly generated dungeons.

Say, in order to collect your blueprints for iron weapons/tools/armor, you'll need to raid a goblin camp.

And in order to get steel you must siege a castle and kill the King.

Etc.

This is definitely possible, with the new NPC AI.

Ditto. A lot can be tested to see what fits the game best.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 14, 2016, 04:24:10 PM
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I feel like I should talk about why I am pushing for this. Obviously Im passionate about my opinion, and I want to see the game succeed. But the main reason is popularity. No not for myself, but for the game mdoes. Get on Xbox Live and look at the maps open. 90% of them are Creative. I'd bet most of the community agree TM's creative trumps Minecrafts creative. I'd bet that most non biased players would prefer TM to minecraft. But Dig Deep and Survival are rather lacking. I believe with what TM has at its use it could be a completely better all around game than minecraft.

Craig (putting you on the spot, sorry) said this:

then I'm stuck in a perpetual race trying to catch up to Minecraft, a race I can never win due to having less development resource.

Id disagree with this statement. Obviously Minecraft has the money, and man power at its disposal. TM has 2 devs and a testing team. Not starting off great. The reason I disagree is because of one game. Bioshock Infinite. Game of the year 2013 runner up, only losing out to Last Of Us (great game by the way.)

Bioshock Infinite was made a dev team of about 30-40 people. Bioshock Infinite finished ahead of GTA V in game of the year by one place. GTA V has made close to 2 billion dollars in sales. Take that power ball. Anyway, GTA V was developed by a team of 1,000.

"Grand Theft Auto V was developed by more than 1,000 people across multiple Rockstar Games studios, Rockstar North president Leslie Benzies told Develop in a new interview." (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/rockstar-more-than-1000-people-made-gtav/1100-6415330/)

Point in case, money and man power doesn't always win. I think DD/Survival could easily beat out Minecrafts survival aspect of each games respective modes.

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Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Dark Hydrak on January 14, 2016, 05:31:55 PM
The number 1 thing I hate about survival is the spawn killing. Its ridiculous. If you die, you're done until it's day.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jared on January 14, 2016, 07:18:21 PM
I'm going to make this short, sweet, and right to the point. I couldn't agree more with Nefty's post.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: As many W's as possible on January 14, 2016, 09:36:31 PM
As a very big Dig Deep player and enthusiast, I love Nefty's ideas. Along with Dryym's new BP idea, I'd be very hyped to see these changes.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Craig on January 14, 2016, 09:49:22 PM
Could you possibly give a list of what you would want to add before revamping Survival/DD?
Yes it would probably be a good idea to have a forum for discussion on any big changes before going through with them.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Clerical on January 14, 2016, 11:26:17 PM
Obviously agree with most of the OP, But yet again everyone knows this and many do talk about it (Including Craig)

However as Craig mentioned above there are still many things left over that should be done before focus is pushed to Survival/Dig Deep modes.

With dig deep i believe the blueprint system needs to stay as it is, Its what makes it dig deep, not just realy deep survival, and most first time players love the blueprint mechanic, Its only after a few DD maps it becomes tedius.

Blueprint changes
When collecting a blueprint you are offered an option between 3 blueprints
Similar to this.
(http://oi65.tinypic.com/2ivikxk.jpg)
All three tiers will be of similar reward and type. so if you find a tool BP then you will get a choice between three tools/weapons of the same tier.
What this does it remove the need to get every single blueprint before you find a pickaxe to move on (Which many updates leaves the blueprint for pickaxes out of reach)
Choosing a blueprint will remove the blueprint from the ground and remove the choice from the list so you won't get repeats.

Requirements to wield.
Giving players targets helps them stay motivated, But if they are to difficult/long then they become tedious and are then something that are in the way,
So i propose alot of items/Blocks should have small requirements before they can be used
This picture just an example, but id suggest something like 50 clay instead, As many players like to rush till they get to the first hell layer.
Along with thid goal you are required to of find the previous tier blueprint for the tool, so you can't just skip iron to get to the steel tier items. you need to select a path you want to go down and follow it, if not you need to collect more blueprints.
(http://oi68.tinypic.com/1zef9dj.jpg)

Generated Structures
Exploration, we all crave it, we all know the game needs it, However i believe we want alot of it. Dungeons, Castles, Sky Fortresses, underwater temples all filled with rewards,traps and mob specific to that area.

End Goal
Everyone wants a goal, Some other biome or some conent that shows you are end game.
Now i think there could be two options. One if fairly obvious.

The moon.
ever since Craig played with gravity and created the moon seed everyone has wanted to go there on their dig deep world and build there.
The sky.

moon not you're style?, how about the heavens?
Or why not just revamp the nexus? Instead of having just red stone everywhere and 1 tower made from bedrock, Why not have a battle zone down their with angels/templars vs diablo's and other dark creatures, a constant battle between both sides. Head down the the nexus and you can head inside a portal which allows you to go to the a place in the sky which is made of clouds where demigods/angels roam.


May add more, got tons oif ideas.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Dryym on January 15, 2016, 08:27:23 AM
moon not you're style?, how about the heavens?
Or why not just revamp the nexus? Instead of having just red stone everywhere and 1 tower made from bedrock, Why not have a battle zone down their with angels/templars vs diablo's and other dark creatures, a constant battle between both sides. Head down the the nexus and you can head inside a portal which allows you to go to the a place in the sky which is made of clouds where demigods/angels roam.


May add more, got tons oif ideas.


I have never understood why you call rhyolite layer "Nexus". It made no sense, But by (I think) pure coincidence the name you chose actually makes sense with your idea.

Nexus means tie, Or connection. So if the nexus is a portal room to other pocket realms it would actually be pretty cool.


My thoughts, There needs to be no angelic tower, As the angels being holy servants will most likely not need a material location of rest as the attackers. They can just be beamed down from Mount Olympus/Asgard/Heaven/The Moon/Whatever.


The Demons however have created this structure out of indestructible materials to protect their portals to other dimensions or locations.

Maybe these demons are just being subjected to some kind of racial profiling. Being assumed to be evil when in reality it was their ancestors that did unspeakable things. They may want to go some place where the gods have no jurisdiction so they can live their lives free of the oppression of the gods and the humans (666 seed?).


Always take the story of both sides of a conflict in to account. Lol

Perhaps you could be given a quest by leaders of each side to either help the demons escape this realm, Or to help the angels annihilate the portals and the demons.

Talking to the lead Demon would have you searching for parts to finish the portals, It would also mean all Diablos would be passive to you. Allowing you to talk to them and possibly even recruit them into your party as a bodyguard. It would also make angels hostile to you.

Upon completing the quest, All portals will have been built, The demons will have (Mostly) left, And you are free to use the portals whenever you want.


In the overworld, Angels would take the place of the Diablo as a tough mob trying to kill you, And any remaining demons will still me able to be recruited as bodyguards.


Talking to the Angel leader will have you enter the bedrock tower, And kill everyone there to stop all progress on the portals. At which point you gain the blueprints for a basic portal frame, But have to figure out how to activate it as that information died with the demons there.

You will also be able to recruit angels as bodyguards.

Good and Evil is very subjective, And there are good and evil things about every side in a war.
Maybe if the Angel leader and the Demon leader were to sit down and actually talk they would realize that both sides are wrong, And maybe war is not the way... ;)

I think it could also be cool if when wearing the Diablo skin, Angels spawn naturally and attack you, Where Diablos are passive to you.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Clerical on January 15, 2016, 08:40:01 AM

I have never understood why you call rhyolite layer "Nexus". It made no sense, But by (I think) pure coincidence the name you chose actually makes sense with your idea.

No idea, Quad started it and every carried it on, better then called it 2nd hell XD

And yeah could go on i was tempted to go all out on the angel/diablo but it was late and i could not be bothered to make stuff for pictures lol XD
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: King Goliath on January 15, 2016, 09:21:01 AM
I love this topic literally everything i complain about with my friends are here, (including those pesky trees that don't give me saplings. But i hope to see an overhaul soon i think we have enough features in game right now... So hopefully this & mobs could be 1st on the list
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Dryym on January 15, 2016, 09:40:50 AM
No idea, Quad started it and every carried it on, better then called it 2nd hell XD

And yeah could go on i was tempted to go all out on the angel/diablo but it was late and i could not be bothered to make stuff for pictures lol XD

Ah, I asked because you are the only one who I have ever seen call it that. New or Old.

But the name gave me the cool idea, So I can't complain. Even if it never made sense before now.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Rev Elevenclaw on January 15, 2016, 10:27:29 AM
Quoting Nefty...
Obviously you have had some great experience with the DD game mode, but it seems most of what you're saying comes from past experience. No doubt DD was fun for many people, I had great fun when I first purchased the game as well. But the overhaul DD needs requires a lot of that to be changed. Im fully confident you'll have just as, if not more fun with new additions to the game mode.

It is true my map originated 1.8, however I have kept it up to date as TMF evolved. And I plan to continue evolving it as more is available. I would love to give u a tour. My builds may look a bit "old school", but believe me has all the right stuff. And plenty more to come. So I may seem a bit resistant, that is because last core changes like weapons n armor, enc. items, n skilling had a negative impact in my map. I had blueprints duping and got locked out on a lot of items. This has since been remedied and I hope my map is never rendered unusable. That would be lame, so I worry. I know...kinda selfish.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Holden on January 15, 2016, 11:23:58 AM
#5) Skills. What was once the Titanic on paper, turned into well, the titanic in game. Skills went from a great way to introduce RPG maps in a more effective way, and to add another challenge to Survival based game modes, turned into hours of grinding. When they came out I taped my controller down in various locations and went to chipotle with my friends, came back and I was a level 5 miner. Point in case, Skill revamp. I know they're not mandatory, and if you don't want to grind for hours don't play with it on. Except, I like the extra challenge of having to had mined a certain amount to get the next series of tools. This could even tie into what I said in step 3 with researching, maybe need a certain skill level to research new tools. Anyway, I fell as if things are too spaced out in skills, too far of jumps between tools and blocks. Skills should challenge, yet compliment the player. Not force them into hours of grinding away.
Personally i liked the old skills where the max was 99 but the max you needed to use items were around 50. It was a goal that wasnt completely impossible and only for the determined, considering it was only 32 mil xp and now the max is 999,999,999. Anyway great list and definitely agree with most of it.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 15, 2016, 05:08:25 PM
Quoting Nefty...
Obviously you have had some great experience with the DD game mode, but it seems most of what you're saying comes from past experience. No doubt DD was fun for many people, I had great fun when I first purchased the game as well. But the overhaul DD needs requires a lot of that to be changed. Im fully confident you'll have just as, if not more fun with new additions to the game mode.

It is true my map originated 1.8, however I have kept it up to date as TMF evolved. And I plan to continue evolving it as more is available. I would love to give u a tour. My builds may look a bit "old school", but believe me has all the right stuff. And plenty more to come. So I may seem a bit resistant, that is because last core changes like weapons n armor, enc. items, n skilling had a negative impact in my map. I had blueprints duping and got locked out on a lot of items. This has since been remedied and I hope my map is never rendered unusable. That would be lame, so I worry. I know...kinda selfish.

Not selfish in my eyes. But think most if not all DD maps would benefit from a gamemode overhaul.


Personally i liked the old skills where the max was 99 but the max you needed to use items were around 50. It was a goal that wasnt completely impossible and only for the determined, considering it was only 32 mil xp and now the max is 999,999,999. Anyway great list and definitely agree with most of it.

Yes, but having half of the max completely useless seems rather counter intuitive. Why even make it go to 99 if everything is unlocked by 50? That's like being able to go level 100 in CoD but being able to prestige at 65.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 16, 2016, 10:48:12 AM
Obviously agree with most of the OP, But yet again everyone knows this and many do talk about it (Including Craig)

However as Craig mentioned above there are still many things left over that should be done before focus is pushed to Survival/Dig Deep modes.

With dig deep i believe the blueprint system needs to stay as it is, Its what makes it dig deep, not just realy deep survival, and most first time players love the blueprint mechanic, Its only after a few DD maps it becomes tedius.

Blueprint changes
When collecting a blueprint you are offered an option between 3 blueprints
Similar to this.
(http://oi65.tinypic.com/2ivikxk.jpg)
All three tiers will be of similar reward and type. so if you find a tool BP then you will get a choice between three tools/weapons of the same tier.
What this does it remove the need to get every single blueprint before you find a pickaxe to move on (Which many updates leaves the blueprint for pickaxes out of reach)
Choosing a blueprint will remove the blueprint from the ground and remove the choice from the list so you won't get repeats.

Requirements to wield.
Giving players targets helps them stay motivated, But if they are to difficult/long then they become tedious and are then something that are in the way,
So i propose alot of items/Blocks should have small requirements before they can be used
This picture just an example, but id suggest something like 50 clay instead, As many players like to rush till they get to the first hell layer.
Along with thid goal you are required to of find the previous tier blueprint for the tool, so you can't just skip iron to get to the steel tier items. you need to select a path you want to go down and follow it, if not you need to collect more blueprints.
(http://oi68.tinypic.com/1zef9dj.jpg)

Generated Structures
Exploration, we all crave it, we all know the game needs it, However i believe we want alot of it. Dungeons, Castles, Sky Fortresses, underwater temples all filled with rewards,traps and mob specific to that area.

End Goal
Everyone wants a goal, Some other biome or some conent that shows you are end game.
Now i think there could be two options. One if fairly obvious.

The moon.
ever since Craig played with gravity and created the moon seed everyone has wanted to go there on their dig deep world and build there.
The sky.

moon not you're style?, how about the heavens?
Or why not just revamp the nexus? Instead of having just red stone everywhere and 1 tower made from bedrock, Why not have a battle zone down their with angels/templars vs diablo's and other dark creatures, a constant battle between both sides. Head down the the nexus and you can head inside a portal which allows you to go to the a place in the sky which is made of clouds where demigods/angels roam.


May add more, got tons oif ideas.

I actually enjoy this way of changing blue prints as well. I think there a many great ways DD Blueprints could be improved. I think some sort of tier system is what should be aimed for.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Rev Elevenclaw on January 16, 2016, 12:11:25 PM
I still have a DD moon map, but it is kinda glitches. I would share it. I was setting it up for hosting before I built the 1 I host now.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 18, 2016, 10:46:46 AM
I have something else to add. I sort of kind of touched on it in the caving portion of the OP. What TM lacks is a bunch of ores. Not in game, but where they spawn. There are very few ores within the caves, ive seen more salt than anything. One of my favorite thing to do in Minecraft is go collect massive amounts of Iron, Gold, and Diamond. TM has like 16 more ores than Minecraft (I don't know the exact number) imagine being able to mine all of those, rather than go 3000 blocks down!
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Gary on January 18, 2016, 03:27:16 PM
I have something else to add. I sort of kind of touched on it in the caving portion of the OP. What TM lacks is a bunch of ores. Not in game, but where they spawn. There are very few ores within the caves, ive seen more salt than anything. One of my favorite thing to do in Minecraft is go collect massive amounts of Iron, Gold, and Diamond. TM has like 16 more ores than Minecraft (I don't know the exact number) imagine being able to mine all of those, rather than go 3000 blocks down!

I'd like to see more ores, but of the same tier (like duplicate items or slightly altered stats but still equivalent to another. similar to how terraria does it). I think, from a progression standpoint, the player progresses at a pretty good rate as it is already.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jack Of Shades on January 18, 2016, 07:00:33 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-Alright its going to take me awhile to get my argument across, but id ask you read it completely before you comment. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with this idea/opinion, and i'd love feedback. Please don't fill the thread with +1 -1's cause they aren't helpful. I will also be comparing Survival and Dig Deep to Minecraft, a lot. I know a lot of members of the forums don't like having TM compared to Minecraft, but its one of the few games that is the same if not better than TM in a direct comparison. I'd also like to apologize for any spelling/grammar mistakes in advance. With that said, lets get into this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Alright, so from the title you can tell I am petitioning (if you can call it that) for a complete and utter overhaul of the survival and dig deep game modes of the game. Yes I know those are major changes, but I will tell you why in just a moment.

#1) For me survival is way way way too easy. #1 reason being the economy, the block shops, the item shops. The ability to mine X amounts of a certain block to buy a picaxe/tool. The point is that the economy of TM destroys the entire aspect of crafting/smelting. Minecrafts survival mode is based of of leveling up though tiers of tools (wood mines stone, stone mines iron, iron mines diamond, etc...) and causes you to immerse yourself into the gameplay. Total Miner however does no such thing. At some point, you build a square wooden house, mine a bunch of trees, and start making ladders, selling them, making more, and then repeat. After 30 minutes of doing nothing in game but pressing 5 buttons, you have amassed enough coin to purchase a picaxe or other high tool that would've taken hours to get through actual gameplay. Just Youtube it, there are so many exploits on the economic system in TM. Now before you go off saying "but Nefty, the gold pieces are important to TM, they make it unique" Absolutely. My counter argument is that prices should be jacked way way up. Make it so that actually playing the game you payed $3 for is faster and easier than standing behind a single block for half an hour. Look at deathmatches (yes im using a deathmatch to make my point). You cant stand by the block/item shops and sell your way to the top like it was the NASDAQ, you have to play the map. While most make you mindlessly mine blocks, the vanilla version of TM could improve on that. Adventure for treasure chests is already a large part of it. By making ores and other precious blocks easier to be obtained when going caving, it gives the player the need, no, the want to go caving.
I disagree, because I have played my fair share of BOTH games. While Survival can be a bit more fun on MC, it lacks an economic system as far as pricing per item/block. You need villagers for an economy, setting up that is difficult enough as is. Let's say you start a map and make your entire empire on there. HOURS of grinding, only to find out...you have NO villages. And it has happened to me before, or even worse...only one villager. Then you are screwed. Even more so if you have a difficulty on. Zombies could obliterate that entire village before you even find them. TMF has an economic system that is convenient. Albeit, some may say it's easy...well yes, if you are smart enough to use certain key items/tricks to make cash. But even so, the better stuff on the market cost A LOT and quickly drains that fortune you so lovingly amassed earlier. To be fair, both games economy is messed up to a degree. One day, that may be fixed. But I still prefer TMF over MC sometimes.

#2) Biome generation is flawed. I don't know much about the hardware or technology behind it, but choosing one biome to play your map in is a complete disappointment. Biome generation is iffy, with the exception of Desert which I love, but when you're stuck in one biome your entire experience it dulls down the excitement. Imagine playing CoD multiplayer on one map! Once again where Minecraft flourish, the ability to make villages and other structures to exclusive to certain biomes when playing was awesome! I always had a desert and snow castle when I played. Anyway, point is, multiple Biomes per map would make Survival/DD experience so much more enjoyable.
I do agree, but I find that the biomes are suitable for me. I think, sometimes, Minecraft can OVER-DO biomes and make them too....bizarre. But I have to throw in my agreement on this one.

#3) Those pesky pesky blue prints. Now I actually love blue prints, very interesting take on the game mode. My problem comes with their spawn. When you spend most of your gameplay experience running around looking for blue prints, it takes away from the overall fun. Its rather annoying when you are trying to craft/build and then you don't have the blue print, so you spend endless amount of time looking for that one blueprint, only to find a "steel claymore." I get it that its part of the experience, but how many players actually want to roam around looking for them? They're the only reason I would ever go down in caves in DD, because like I said in #1, and I will talking about caves soon. I would counter with a different idea for researching items. Almost like a blue print, however you have to have a set of items crafted. For instance to craft an Iron Pc, you need to have made a Wood Pic, Wood Axe, maybe like a Wood Bow? Basically so its not just wham bam thank you ma'am now I know how to make a.... "iron hoe?" Well that's not useful.
Understandable, but that's the price you pay for DD. I personally LOVE IT. I revel in the fun of hunting down that next blueprint, hoping it's a new pickaxe or something else of great importance. While it's not for everyone, it does give the game mode a challenge not seen in other voxel games.

#4) Caves. Minecrafts caves are glorious. Caves upon caves running into more caves dropping into ravines with lava. TM, well not so much. Caves are most often one giant pathway, very rarely running into each other. Not to mention the ugly pools of water and lava that still dot the caverns, they make no sense now that there is water physics. Ores are few and far between, and without your Map HUD on good luck find a substantial amount. And they also end abruptly, oh you were getting interested? Getting to Diorite level? Congrats, for all that time you spent moving forward, you have achieved nothing. Caverns need to have more ores, more diversity, more excitement. The game is called Total Miner yet has very few amounts of mining going on.
Well, in MC you don't even have a map to help you find more ores within the earth. But I disagree, while there is a nice variety of cave systems in MC I enjoy the type of caves in TMF are fun to explore. Some expand into different systems with chests, others just go further down and wrap back around. That's the fun of Dig Deep. The cave systems are much better in that mode. Even so, the deeper you go, the more ores you find as well. It all almost seems to be based on chance. But I remember being in Marble layers and finding a large amount of Platinum and such.

#5) Skills. What was once the Titanic on paper, turned into well, the titanic in game. Skills went from a great way to introduce RPG maps in a more effective way, and to add another challenge to Survival based game modes, turned into hours of grinding. When they came out I taped my controller down in various locations and went to chipotle with my friends, came back and I was a level 5 miner. Point in case, Skill revamp. I know they're not mandatory, and if you don't want to grind for hours don't play with it on. Except, I like the extra challenge of having to had mined a certain amount to get the next series of tools. This could even tie into what I said in step 3 with researching, maybe need a certain skill level to research new tools. Anyway, I fell as if things are too spaced out in skills, too far of jumps between tools and blocks. Skills should challenge, yet compliment the player. Not force them into hours of grinding away.
Well with the re-vamp that's what happens. Before hand it was a bit few and far between in which you had to jump to get to the next tier of tools and weapons. Even so, it's pretty decent thus far. It helps expand the levels into different blocks and other items. Before you had no reason to level past 60-70. Now the levels require you to get to almost 100 to use EVERYTHING. Pretty useful way to fill in the void.

#6) Biome Generation: The Sequel. This portion I will be discussing individual biomes. I have no problems with Desert, if anyone does please feel free to post them. Semi-Alpine is an average biome. The beaches surrounding the lakes are just ugly, they're usually 1-2 blocks wide and just fit right. And they land mass always falls the water level perfectly, no ledges, no cliffs, nothing. The landscape if very smooth, and I really don't like it. Another thing I cant stand is in grasslands, the landscape of pure grass is just ugly as well. I guess with multiple biomes per map it could look better, but it looks awful. "But Nefty, its grasslands, shouldn't it all be grass." You're absolutely right! But even the great plains have variations. The lakes/ponds especially are ugly, 1-3 blocks deep and always small just bugs me. The point Im making is to add more variation to Biome Generation.
This one is, more or less, based on opinion. I suppose it could be better but I don't see the problem with it. At least it doesn't spawn floating landmasses. lol

#7) Those damned Trees. Trees look great, especially from the new update. But when you mine all the woods blocks, the leaves remain in the same spot! It looks awful seeing flying leaves everywhere! Then the shaded grass....? You cut down a tree, and remove its leaves, yet the grass remains shaded? The texture on all 4 main textures look awful, and just doesn't fit. And saplings could actually fall from trees without them being cut down? Oddly enough trees reproduce while alive.
That one is one I agree on. The way trees are done on MC are far better than here. Minus the wind feature Craig added, looks cool swaying about.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Possibly more to be added. Please be respectful in the comments and feel free to agree/disagree and add your comments on the thread, Thanks!

I respect you as a person and player Nefty, so don't take these comments to heart if they are negative. It's just my opinions as well.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 18, 2016, 07:15:33 PM
I respect you as a person and player Nefty, so don't take these comments to heart if they are negative. It's just my opinions as well.

Argh! You wrote in my quote! Now quoting you is hard!

I disagree, because I have played my fair share of BOTH games. While Survival can be a bit more fun on MC, it lacks an economic system as far as pricing per item/block. You need villagers for an economy, setting up that is difficult enough as is. Let's say you start a map and make your entire empire on there. HOURS of grinding, only to find out...you have NO villages. And it has happened to me before, or even worse...only one villager. Then you are screwed. Even more so if you have a difficulty on. Zombies could obliterate that entire village before you even find them. TMF has an economic system that is convenient. Albeit, some may say it's easy...well yes, if you are smart enough to use certain key items/tricks to make cash. But even so, the better stuff on the market cost A LOT and quickly drains that fortune you so lovingly amassed earlier. To be fair, both games economy is messed up to a degree. One day, that may be fixed. But I still prefer TMF over MC sometimes.

I'm not entirely against the idea of the block and item shops, in fact they're really unique! My problem comes with how cheap blocks and items actually are! They need to be jacked up in vanilla so it makes more sense to make things yourself than purchase them. Obviously if you have your own map you can economize shops and set prices as you see fit, that's how you can setup your own economy. I still believe the system is too easily exploited.

I do agree, but I find that the biomes are suitable for me. I think, sometimes, Minecraft can OVER-DO biomes and make them too....bizarre. But I have to throw in my agreement on this one.

Yay! 1 for 2!

Understandable, but that's the price you pay for DD. I personally LOVE IT. I revel in the fun of hunting down that next blueprint, hoping it's a new pickaxe or something else of great importance. While it's not for everyone, it does give the game mode a challenge not seen in other voxel games.

Yes it does, I don't think blueprints should be tossed entirely, but definitely reformed.

Well, in MC you don't even have a map to help you find more ores within the earth. But I disagree, while there is a nice variety of cave systems in MC I enjoy the type of caves in TMF are fun to explore. Some expand into different systems with chests, others just go further down and wrap back around. That's the fun of Dig Deep. The cave systems are much better in that mode. Even so, the deeper you go, the more ores you find as well. It all almost seems to be based on chance. But I remember being in Marble layers and finding a large amount of Platinum and such.

I believe the map is close to cheating. A handy feature yes, but being able to see which blocks are where, 5 deep within a wall? That seems rather unfair. I think the chests should be placed as if it were a person playing, not in an obvious offset cave dominated by spiders. I've been on marble layer and found jack squat. If its that randomized it might be a problem. I know MC has like 3-6 diamonds per chunk? Not saying it has to be that accurate, but id rather not have my gameplay experience decided entirely by the maps genreation

Well with the re-vamp that's what happens. Before hand it was a bit few and far between in which you had to jump to get to the next tier of tools and weapons. Even so, it's pretty decent thus far. It helps expand the levels into different blocks and other items. Before you had no reason to level past 60-70. Now the levels require you to get to almost 100 to use EVERYTHING. Pretty useful way to fill in the void.

It should expand all the way to the max, yes! But when it takes 20-30 to upgrade the level of tool or block placed it becomes more tedious than need be.

This one is, more or less, based on opinion. I suppose it could be better but I don't see the problem with it. At least it doesn't spawn floating landmasses. lol

That's my point exactly, its too uniform! While floating landmasses is not realistic yes, it makes the map and gameplay much more exciting! Ive built castles on those floating landmasses! Instead of miles upon miles of grassy hills, maybe giant patches of dirt, sinkhole, Large Rocks! A lake? Idk, the generation is too much the same.

That one is one I agree on. The way trees are done on MC are far better than here. Minus the wind feature Craig added, looks cool swaying about.

2 for 7! Ill take it 8)
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jack Of Shades on January 18, 2016, 07:23:37 PM

I'm not entirely against the idea of the block and item shops, in fact they're really unique! My problem comes with how cheap blocks and items actually are! They need to be jacked up in vanilla so it makes more sense to make things yourself than purchase them. Obviously if you have your own map you can economize shops and set prices as you see fit, that's how you can setup your own economy. I still believe the system is too easily exploited.

Oh I agree, it can be easily exploited. Especially with the Ice Block method. But it's not as bad as I would have imagined. Remember the books method? xD

Yay! 1 for 2!
C'mon Nefty, I wasn't going to discredit EVERYTHING. lol


Yes it does, I don't think blueprints should be tossed entirely, but definitely reformed.
One thing though, you can guarantee each layer possesses a type of pickax that will get you closer to the bottom. ;)

I believe the map is close to cheating. A handy feature yes, but being able to see which blocks are where, 5 deep within a wall? That seems rather unfair. I think the chests should be placed as if it were a person playing, not in an obvious offset cave dominated by spiders. I've been on marble layer and found jack squat. If its that randomized it might be a problem. I know MC has like 3-6 diamonds per chunk? Not saying it has to be that accurate, but id rather not have my gameplay experience decided entirely by the maps genreation
Definitely gotcha. One thing you can rest assure, once you reach lower levels you will find CRAP loads of Rubies, Sapphires, and Titanium. It's all about knowing where to look. It's almost a science/art form. lol Trub, Liam, and myself know where to go. But we're also freaks over DD maps. :P

It should expand all the way to the max, yes! But when it takes 20-30 to upgrade the level of tool or block placed it becomes more tedious than need be.
Yes, that much is understandable. Definitely. Like with Runescape, their tier expansion is between a 10 level variety. So from 10 levels you go to Iron to steel, then another 10 and you are at black armor, then Mithril, etc.

That's my point exactly, its too uniform! While floating landmasses is not realistic yes, it makes the map and gameplay much more exciting! Ive built castles on those floating landmasses! Instead of miles upon miles of grassy hills, maybe giant patches of dirt, sinkhole, Large Rocks! A lake? Idk, the generation is too much the same.
That is true, suppose I wasn't thinking all the way through before responding. I am that type of builder too. I tend to do FANTASTIC builds on occasion, on odd landmasses as well. It's just all on opinion at the time, I should say. lol
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 18, 2016, 07:32:04 PM
Now I shall respond inside the quote to make it tough for you to read, and tough to quote!

Oh I agree, it can be easily exploited. Especially with the Ice Block method. But it's not as bad as I would have imagined. Remember the books method? xD

Yes there are still exploits.... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzsINOzvSh8)

C'mon Nefty, I wasn't going to discredit EVERYTHING. lol

I wanted to call you out on somethind, I was disappointed your arguments were somewhat valid :/ xD

One thing though, you can guarantee each layer possesses a type of pickax that will get you closer to the bottom. ;)

I think each set of tools (wood pic, wood hatchet, wood shovel, etc...) Get its own blueprint to unlock the entire tier.

Definitely gotcha. One thing you can rest assure, once you reach lower levels you will find CRAP loads of Rubies, Sapphires, and Titanium. It's all about knowing where to look. It's almost a science/art form. lol Trub, Liam, and myself know where to go. But we're also freaks over DD maps. :P

I love it when .000345% of the community knows how to play DD well, xD, but seriously I can never find anything below the depth of 1500 without my map on.

Yes, that much is understandable. Definitely. Like with Runescape, their tier expansion is between a 10 level variety. So from 10 levels you go to Iron to steel, then another 10 and you are at black armor, then Mithril, etc.

Ill see you in goblin house, I'm trying to get my strength up xD

That is true, suppose I wasn't thinking all the way through before responding. I am that type of builder too. I tend to do FANTASTIC builds on occasion, on odd landmasses as well. It's just all on opinion at the time, I should say. lol

Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlkeQ1ckF-Y)
^^^^
You never see builds like this in TM, they all have to be terraformed by hand by the player. Extra time and most people lose motivation.

Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jack Of Shades on January 18, 2016, 07:47:47 PM
Yes there are still exploits....
WEll....that was more or less a lower tier type of processing. Taking one base material and continuously changing it to further add to it's value. Again though, the Ice Block method is way more lucrative. You make over 40k per 100 stack. O:

I wanted to call you out on something, I was disappointed your arguments were somewhat valid :/ xD
Not throwing around BS here my friend, I give valid arguments no matter what. :D


I think each set of tools (wood pic, wood hatchet, wood shovel, etc...) Get its own blueprint to unlock the entire tier.
Might be, but I noticed each layer I travel to furthers my tools progression as far as blueprints. Might just be me. lol


I love it when .000345% of the community knows how to play DD well, xD, but seriously I can never find anything below the depth of 1500 without my map on.
Hey man, just play with us sometime. I can show you cool tricks I learn from Craig and Trub. Liam never taught me anything. :(


Ill see you in goblin house, I'm trying to get my strength up xD
Gimme 10 hours of your time, I bet I can boost you to level 79. I was once a grinder, I know HALF of what I am talking about.

You never see builds like this in TM, they all have to be terraformed by hand by the player. Extra time and most people lose motivation.
I know, you basically have to do Creative or be as weird as Trub and I am. Do everything on DD and people ask if the map is on "creative" or not. lol

Nefty...I thought we were friends. You done screwed me man! :( I had to edit the crap out of this. xD
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jared on January 18, 2016, 08:04:55 PM
GG for the oversized quotes guys ^.^
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Gary on January 19, 2016, 02:33:27 PM
I was writing a script for a new video, when I started thinking about the shops impact on total miner. You touched on this somewhat in your post, Nefty, so I'll just reply here.

Part of the reason why I feel that there is a sort of blandness to survival is because the shops inherently discourage the aspects of the survival gamemode that make it great. Exploring.

Why venture into deep underground caverns or immersive landscapes when you can obtain everything in the game by mining straight down for an hour?

I think this should be taken into consideration when there is a survival overhaul, further down the line. Reward players for venturing out into the world, overcoming challenges, battling creatures, and raiding generated structures, and not so much for mining the same block for hours on end and processing the materials.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: King Goliath on January 20, 2016, 04:08:53 PM
I have an idea for shops, Maybe in survival & dig deep all shops bought or made have a certain amount of money say...24k upon getting it. When a player buys an item it will add money to the shop & when they sell items to it the shop will give them money until it runs out in which case the shop won't take it, rather then the shop having an unlimited supply ^-^
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jack Of Shades on January 20, 2016, 04:47:51 PM

I was writing a script for a new video, when I started thinking about the shops impact on total miner. You touched on this somewhat in your post, Nefty, so I'll just reply here.

Part of the reason why I feel that there is a sort of blandness to survival is because the shops inherently discourage the aspects of the survival gamemode that make it great. Exploring.
In survival, yes. However, you take into consideration the exploration needed to find all the blue prints in Dig Deep and it's on point. You MUST go everywhere. It handles survival status in a different way. Survival itself is as you said...bland. Simply because EVERYTHING is already there, minus the harder difficulties where they take away the shops.

Why venture into deep underground caverns or immersive landscapes when you can obtain everything in the game by mining straight down for an hour?
Again, with Dig Deep you don't have that issue. this should mostly be directed towards Survival purely.

I think this should be taken into consideration when there is a survival overhaul, further down the line. Reward players for venturing out into the world, overcoming challenges, battling creatures, and raiding generated structures, and not so much for mining the same block for hours on end and processing the materials.
I do believe the Quest update should handle this issue. But I agree, that much more immersion would be a little more satisfying for the player.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 20, 2016, 05:03:39 PM
In survival, yes. However, you take into consideration the exploration needed to find all the blue prints in Dig Deep and it's on point. You MUST go everywhere. It handles survival status in a different way. Survival itself is as you said...bland. Simply because EVERYTHING is already there, minus the harder difficulties where they take away the shops.

Or stare at a spinning blue arrow until you come across one. You know, another cheap factor like the map.

Again, with Dig Deep you don't have that issue. this should mostly be directed towards Survival purely.

Yes you do, you can acquire the same amount of wealth by mining straight down for an hour.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jack Of Shades on January 20, 2016, 05:13:14 PM
Or stare at a spinning blue arrow until you come across one. You know, another cheap factor like the map.
Well, if there was a way to turn off the arrow it would make finding them harder and less of ...cheap factor. ;)

Yes you do, you can acquire the same amount of wealth by mining straight down for an hour.
Start a DD map and try digging straight down. I guarantee this is a wrong statement. lol
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Gary on January 20, 2016, 07:31:19 PM
In survival, yes. However, you take into consideration the exploration needed to find all the blue prints in Dig Deep and it's on point. You MUST go everywhere. It handles survival status in a different way. Survival itself is as you said...bland. Simply because EVERYTHING is already there, minus the harder difficulties where they take away the shops.

Hence why I said survival. Lol.

The same principle still impacts DD because there are no generated structures, but it isn't as significant.

Again, with Dig Deep you don't have that issue. this should mostly be directed towards Survival purely.

Hence why I said SURVIVAL lol.

I do believe the Quest update should handle this issue. But I agree, that much more immersion would be a little more satisfying for the player.

If the quest update comes with generated structures and significant changes to the economy then yes.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on February 01, 2016, 08:21:16 PM
Hence why I said survival. Lol.

The same principle still impacts DD because there are no generated structures, but it isn't as significant.

Yes except more often than not you end up staring at the pretty blue arrow rather than immersing in the landscape.

If the quest update comes with generated structures and significant changes to the economy then yes.

Will add generated structures to OP.[color]
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on April 11, 2016, 07:02:43 PM
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Jack Of Shades on April 11, 2016, 07:36:53 PM
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.
Would you say..
Dark Souls hard?
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Gary on April 11, 2016, 07:45:50 PM
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.

Playing on Legendary?
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on April 11, 2016, 07:47:44 PM
I know i havent touched this topic in awhile but its still relevant.


I've been playing on Desert Survival and i must say its hard. Well, too hard. I understand Desert survival should be the hardest game mode out of all of them, but I cant seem to progress very far. Maybe im bad, i dont know, but i cant seem to get any tress to grow, progress past iron level, find any materials to craft any shops. Like i said, i understand its hard, but i feel as if the difficulty is much too great.

Playing on Legendary?

Trying.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: King Goliath on April 12, 2016, 08:16:48 AM
well the problem for me was that when i cut down the only trees that i could grow, the leaves just sat there floating so no sappling came down so now there is no wood. so my game is pretty much over. I checked everywhere there is no oasis anywhere else that has sapplings around
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on July 07, 2016, 02:22:13 PM
Added Dryym's Ranged Improvement Topic as #9

I think that TM's ranged mechanics need to be worked on, As currently the arrows feel like they are floating in space when you shoot them. It isn't really that fun because it's ridiculous to try to hit someone.

I also think that the different bow types should be completely different from the others, Thus not making the lower level bows obsolete, Let's leave progression to the arrows.

First off, All bows would have a draw weight, This would determine the power, And speed of the arrow, But also determines the time it takes to pull the bow string back, And how long the bow can be held back.

Second off, Specialty arrows (Boom, Fire, And Ice) should be heavier, And thus have less range then conventional arrows.

Finally, The higher your strength level, The faster you can pull the bow string back, And the longer you can hold it back.

Ok, Let's get on to the different types of bows.


---------------------


Wood Bow: This is your starting bow, It looks like a simple longbow, So it would have an average draw weight. Meaning that it would have decent draw speed, And holding time for beginners. A good, Cheap all around bow.

Gold Bow: I'm not entirely sure what the gold bow looks like, So I'm guessing it's stats. It would have a light draw weight, Not having much power or range, But being able to fire faster then all other bows.

Spider Bow: The Spider bow looks like a (Very crazy) Recurve bow, So it would probably have a lighter draw weight then the longbow, But due to it's design it would transfer it's energy more efficiently, Resulting in range and damage more than the gold bow, But less then the longing.

Troll Bow: The Troll Bow looks like a really beefy longbow, So it would have a really heavy draw weight, Meaning that it would have much greater power and range then all of the other bows, But at the cost of a really slow draw speed which can't be held for very long at all.

Titanium Bow: The Titanium Bow looks like a modern compound bow. So it would have a draw weight slightly heavier then the longbow, Meaning more power and range with a slower draw speed, But it can be held at full draw for longer due to it's modern design.

Elven Bow: The Elven Bow looks similar to a longbow, But has the special infinite ammo bonus. As such, I think it should have a draw weight in between the compound, And Troll bows. Favouring power over speed.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on December 14, 2017, 11:09:08 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-Alright its going to take me awhile to get my argument across, but id ask you read it completely before you comment. Obviously not everyone is going to agree with this idea/opinion, and i'd love feedback. Please don't fill the thread with +1 -1's cause they aren't helpful. I will also be comparing Survival and Dig Deep to Minecraft, a lot. I know a lot of members of the forums don't like having TM compared to Minecraft, but its one of the few games that is the same if not better than TM in a direct comparison. I'd also like to apologize for any spelling/grammar mistakes in advance. With that said, lets get into this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Alright, so from the title you can tell I am petitioning (if you can call it that) for a complete and utter overhaul of the survival and dig deep game modes of the game. Yes I know those are major changes, but I will tell you why in just a moment.

#1) For me survival is way way way too easy. #1 reason being the economy, the block shops, the item shops. The ability to mine X amounts of a certain block to buy a picaxe/tool. The point is that the economy of TM destroys the entire aspect of crafting/smelting. Minecrafts survival mode is based of of leveling up though tiers of tools (wood mines stone, stone mines iron, iron mines diamond, etc...) and causes you to immerse yourself into the gameplay. Total Miner however does no such thing. At some point, you build a square wooden house, mine a bunch of trees, and start making ladders, selling them, making more, and then repeat. After 30 minutes of doing nothing in game but pressing 5 buttons, you have amassed enough coin to purchase a picaxe or other high tool that would've taken hours to get through actual gameplay. Just Youtube it, there are so many exploits on the economic system in TM. Now before you go off saying "but Nefty, the gold pieces are important to TM, they make it unique" Absolutely. My counter argument is that prices should be jacked way way up. Make it so that actually playing the game you payed $3 for is faster and easier than standing behind a single block for half an hour. Look at deathmatches (yes im using a deathmatch to make my point). You cant stand by the block/item shops and sell your way to the top like it was the NASDAQ, you have to play the map. While most make you mindlessly mine blocks, the vanilla version of TM could improve on that. Adventure for treasure chests is already a large part of it. By making ores and other precious blocks easier to be obtained when going caving, it gives the player the need, no, the want to go caving.

#2) Biome generation is flawed. I don't know much about the hardware or technology behind it, but choosing one biome to play your map in is a complete disappointment. Biome generation is iffy, with the exception of Desert which I love, but when you're stuck in one biome your entire experience it dulls down the excitement. Imagine playing CoD multiplayer on one map! Once again where Minecraft flourish, the ability to make villages and other structures to exclusive to certain biomes when playing was awesome! I always had a desert and snow castle when I played. Anyway, point is, multiple Biomes per map would make Survival/DD experience so much more enjoyable.

#3) Those pesky pesky blue prints. Now I actually love blue prints, very interesting take on the game mode. My problem comes with their spawn. When you spend most of your gameplay experience running around looking for blue prints, it takes away from the overall fun. Its rather annoying when you are trying to craft/build and then you don't have the blue print, so you spend endless amount of time looking for that one blueprint, only to find a "steel claymore." I get it that its part of the experience, but how many players actually want to roam around looking for them? They're the only reason I would ever go down in caves in DD, because like I said in #1, and I will talking about caves soon. I would counter with a different idea for researching items. Almost like a blue print, however you have to have a set of items crafted. For instance to craft an Iron Pc, you need to have made a Wood Pic, Wood Axe, maybe like a Wood Bow? Basically so its not just wham bam thank you ma'am now I know how to make a.... "iron hoe?" Well that's not useful.

#4) Caves. Minecrafts caves are glorious. Caves upon caves running into more caves dropping into ravines with lava. TM, well not so much. Caves are most often one giant pathway, very rarely running into each other. Not to mention the ugly pools of water and lava that still dot the caverns, they make no sense now that there is water physics. Ores are few and far between, and without your Map HUD on good luck find a substantial amount. And they also end abruptly, oh you were getting interested? Getting to Diorite level? Congrats, for all that time you spent moving forward, you have achieved nothing. Caverns need to have more ores, more diversity, more excitement. The game is called Total Miner yet has very few amounts of mining going on.

#5) Skills. What was once the Titanic on paper, turned into well, the titanic in game. Skills went from a great way to introduce RPG maps in a more effective way, and to add another challenge to Survival based game modes, turned into hours of grinding. When they came out I taped my controller down in various locations and went to chipotle with my friends, came back and I was a level 5 miner. Point in case, Skill revamp. I know they're not mandatory, and if you don't want to grind for hours don't play with it on. Except, I like the extra challenge of having to had mined a certain amount to get the next series of tools. This could even tie into what I said in step 3 with researching, maybe need a certain skill level to research new tools. Anyway, I fell as if things are too spaced out in skills, too far of jumps between tools and blocks. Skills should challenge, yet compliment the player. Not force them into hours of grinding away.

#6) Biome Generation: The Sequel. This portion I will be discussing individual biomes. I have no problems with Desert, if anyone does please feel free to post them. Semi-Alpine is an average biome. The beaches surrounding the lakes are just ugly, they're usually 1-2 blocks wide and just fit right. And they land mass always falls the water level perfectly, no ledges, no cliffs, nothing. The landscape if very smooth, and I really don't like it. Another thing I cant stand is in grasslands, the landscape of pure grass is just ugly as well. I guess with multiple biomes per map it could look better, but it looks awful. "But Nefty, its grasslands, shouldn't it all be grass." You're absolutely right! But even the great plains have variations. The lakes/ponds especially are ugly, 1-3 blocks deep and always small just bugs me. The point Im making is to add more variation to Biome Generation.

#7) Those damned Trees. Trees look great, especially from the new update. But when you mine all the woods blocks, the leaves remain in the same spot! It looks awful seeing flying leaves everywhere! Then the shaded grass....? You cut down a tree, and remove its leaves, yet the grass remains shaded? The texture on all 4 main textures look awful, and just doesn't fit. And saplings could actually fall from trees without them being cut down? Oddly enough trees reproduce while alive.

#8) Generated Structures! Not absolutely necessary, but a wide open landscape can be rather dull if not done right. A few buildings, villages, castles, towers, etc... mixed in would really spice up a lot of the game!

#9) Better Ranged Mechanics (From Dryym)
I think that TM's ranged mechanics need to be worked on, As currently the arrows feel like they are floating in space when you shoot them. It isn't really that fun because it's ridiculous to try to hit someone.

I also think that the different bow types should be completely different from the others, Thus not making the lower level bows obsolete, Let's leave progression to the arrows.

First off, All bows would have a draw weight, This would determine the power, And speed of the arrow, But also determines the time it takes to pull the bow string back, And how long the bow can be held back.

Second off, Specialty arrows (Boom, Fire, And Ice) should be heavier, And thus have less range then conventional arrows.

Finally, The higher your strength level, The faster you can pull the bow string back, And the longer you can hold it back.

Ok, Let's get on to the different types of bows.


---------------------


Wood Bow: This is your starting bow, It looks like a simple longbow, So it would have an average draw weight. Meaning that it would have decent draw speed, And holding time for beginners. A good, Cheap all around bow.

Gold Bow: I'm not entirely sure what the gold bow looks like, So I'm guessing it's stats. It would have a light draw weight, Not having much power or range, But being able to fire faster then all other bows.

Spider Bow: The Spider bow looks like a (Very crazy) Recurve bow, So it would probably have a lighter draw weight then the longbow, But due to it's design it would transfer it's energy more efficiently, Resulting in range and damage more than the gold bow, But less then the longing.

Troll Bow: The Troll Bow looks like a really beefy longbow, So it would have a really heavy draw weight, Meaning that it would have much greater power and range then all of the other bows, But at the cost of a really slow draw speed which can't be held for very long at all.

Titanium Bow: The Titanium Bow looks like a modern compound bow. So it would have a draw weight slightly heavier then the longbow, Meaning more power and range with a slower draw speed, But it can be held at full draw for longer due to it's modern design.

Elven Bow: The Elven Bow looks similar to a longbow, But has the special infinite ammo bonus. As such, I think it should have a draw weight in between the compound, And Troll bows. Favouring power over speed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Possibly more to be added. Please be respectful in the comments and feel free to agree/disagree and add your comments on the thread, Thanks!
I'm going to spend a few minutes reviewing this post I made almost a year ago. I've had time to examine these ideas and reflect on my prior opinions, and some change. With the PC release coming I think it'd be a good idea to review this. If you haven't seen this before I would recommend reading the OP to understand everything in depth.

1.) This is the only one I really agree fully with still. The shops are just a no go from me. I'm actually working on a video on how to fix the economy in TM.

2.) I feel as if I was rather unfair on this one. Desert still is my favorite biome, but since downloading Minecraft for my Xbox One and receiving the updates, I absolutely abhor the multitude of biomes. Maybe it is just me but there are too many and they don't mesh well together. While it would be nice to have multiple biomes in a single map, I'm glad its just one as opposed to that 400 in Minecraft.

3.) Assassins Creed Black Flag is a fantastic game. For those who dont know, you play as a pirate with a ship named the Jackdaw. To upgrade your ship you start by simply paying money. Then you need metal and wood, and more money. Then for all the final upgrades you need to find elite plans. these are found at the bottom of the ocean. Very difficult to acquire. I think TM would benefit from this style of blueprint system. Wood and lower-tier metal tools cost money/crafting materials. High-tier metal weapons require research or some form of non-exploratory system of unlocking them. But the sledgehammer, and other god-tier items, require blueprints found in the deep deep caves. This will make the "Dig Deep" aspect more late game yes, but i think by that time the player is more committed to the map and willing to find those extra hard blue prints.

4.) I actually have come to like the caves of Total Miner. they make getting to lower levels much easier. The only criticism that I would hold is have them run into each other, and more of them. Minor improvements at the most.

5.) Still support my claim for skills. If not my ideas, it definitely needs some sort of revamp. Didn't many maps use skills, let alone use them well.

6.) Yes, biomes should generate more interesting than the way they do now. But playing Minecraft and looking at the ugly giant mountains that spawn an inevitable floating island, and then the oceans that go on and on and on. Once again like with the first biome generation, a happy medium between where we are now and Minecrafts and we're sitting pretty.

7.) @Craig I'm sorry I was so damn sarcastic in the OP. I still don't like the leaves not despawning, still don't like shaded grass. But I promise The way they are now is okay. once again minor tweaks are fine.

8.) I'm really in between this decision now. Mainly because how awful Minecraft does it now. Either you don't use the buildings and they go to waste. Or you use the farms and blacksmith chests and essentially start the game a mile ahead of where you would be if you started from scratch. Maybe if Total Miner doesn't have annoying NPC's in these villages that don't sell anything useful. I'd like to hear some other opinions on this.

9.) Dryym can debate his point. I think a total combat overhaul would be nice, but since combat is such a minor part of the game I wouldn't mind seeing this at the bottom of the priority list.

-->> Please leave opinions in the replies. Would love to debate with you all! Also if there are any typos or spelling mistakes let me know over DM!

PS. Is biome spelled wrong? i keep getting the red squigglies under it?
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: cY Agent 115 on December 15, 2017, 01:12:13 AM
Honestly when it comes to survival, I feel that the game is too linear. Why would you mine when you could save 2-3 hours of grinding just making ladders and doors? "Yeah well if you think its wrong don't do it!" what else would I do when my friends in my game in their Marble Fortress and sentry turreted towers and shed loads of money while i'm still raising funds to upgrade to a diamond pick but mining money ores. The shop is OP, now I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm saying there's gotta be a better way to handle to progression of a survival game. Time in game? Craft 20-50 of this item to unlock the next tier in the shop? Physically have the item in our hand to be able to buy one? Those are all viable answers (not saying they are the best).

As for blueprints, I disagree with what you said but i understand your pain. Just think, have you been on search for a blueprint and found that one ore you needed to upgrade your pickaxe? It's happened to me more than i'd like to admit. I like adventure and, as much as its a grind, I love the feeling of accomplishment when you get them all, or the one you needed for a while.

one things that was't mentioned in the OP, Scripts. Why are we allowed to freely script our way to riches? There should be a huuuuuuuge restriction on the scripts you can use. Even teleporting a little OP, we have obsidian.. use it.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on December 15, 2017, 02:22:44 PM
Honestly when it comes to survival, I feel that the game is too linear. Why would you mine when you could save 2-3 hours of grinding just making ladders and doors? "Yeah well if you think its wrong don't do it!" what else would I do when my friends in my game in their Marble Fortress and sentry turreted towers and shed loads of money while i'm still raising funds to upgrade to a diamond pick but mining money ores. The shop is OP, now I'm not saying get rid of it, I'm saying there's gotta be a better way to handle to progression of a survival game. Time in game? Craft 20-50 of this item to unlock the next tier in the shop? Physically have the item in our hand to be able to buy one? Those are all viable answers (not saying they are the best).

As for blueprints, I disagree with what you said but i understand your pain. Just think, have you been on search for a blueprint and found that one ore you needed to upgrade your pickaxe? It's happened to me more than i'd like to admit. I like adventure and, as much as its a grind, I love the feeling of accomplishment when you get them all, or the one you needed for a while.

one things that was't mentioned in the OP, Scripts. Why are we allowed to freely script our way to riches? There should be a huuuuuuuge restriction on the scripts you can use. Even teleporting a little OP, we have obsidian.. use it.


I understand scripts make the game extremely easy. My points were for the game excluding scripting altogether. Even if you handicap yourself the game still needs tweaks in the right places.

Honestly no, I never felt accompished when finding the blueprint I needed. If anything I get angry that it was in last place I was looking  :!
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: cY Agent 115 on December 15, 2017, 04:23:00 PM
i swear i had a video in my comment on this post :/
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on December 15, 2017, 04:43:59 PM
i swear i had a video in my comment on this post :/

You did, but its against forum rules to make posts about exploits or gitches. So it was edited out by a mod.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: cY Agent 115 on December 15, 2017, 04:47:21 PM
its against forum rules to make posts about exploits or gitches.
Ahh of course, well if you saw it you'll see how easy survival is to exploit. Even without that specific script it's stupidly overpowered. Scripts should be restricted
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Sexy Hippo on December 22, 2017, 11:01:52 AM
I personally love the idea of having prices jacked up and more work effort needed to obtain end game gear, weapons, etc. But for me it's what makes TM different from Minecraft. I remember some of the many exploits for the economic system both loving them because they helped a lot but also hating them because it made the game go by much faster. In the end, however, it all comes down to personal actions. If a player doesn't want to deal with the exploit breaking the experience then they don't have to do it, put simply, the player makes the choice of going that path.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: CDJ on December 22, 2017, 11:07:48 AM
I personally love the idea of having prices jacked up and more work effort needed to obtain end game gear, weapons, etc. But for me it's what makes TM different from Minecraft. I remember some of the many exploits for the economic system both loving them because they helped a lot but also hating them because it made the game go by much faster. In the end, however, it all comes down to personal actions. If a player doesn't want to deal with the exploit breaking the experience then they don't have to do it, put simply, the player makes the choice of going that path.

I agree, in my eyes there is nothing better then a game that takes a grind. A game that does not end quickly. A game that takes time. Some people do enjoy exploiting but i honestly don't see the point, it's just basically cheating.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Nefty on January 09, 2018, 03:08:09 PM
I agree, in my eyes there is nothing better then a game that takes a grind. A game that does not end quickly. A game that takes time. Some people do enjoy exploiting but i honestly don't see the point, it's just basically cheating.

Not even a grind, its not difficult to rank your way up manually via crafting/mining. Shops should definitely be an end of the game block, something you get at the very end to make building structures on survival/dig deep easier when money wouldnt even be an issue.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: As many W's as possible on January 09, 2018, 11:28:20 PM
Being someone who actually levelled all of their skills playing Dig Deep, it is already a real grind to get those skills up, especially at the beginning when you have few crafting options and actual playability. Anywho, shops helped a substantial amount at the beginning, but maybe there could be a difficulty setting that makes shops not in your inventory and also at the bottom of the map in terms of blueprints. That'd make the level grind quite intense.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: Rev Elevenclaw on January 12, 2018, 06:35:41 PM
Please don't destroy DD!
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: The Map Cartographer on January 31, 2019, 12:58:19 PM
I think it needs a big refresh and relaunch, editing it a this point would stress the dev team too much because there are too many items and blocks.

A simple redoing would be most acceptable in my eyes.
Title: Re: Survival/Dig Deep Overhaul
Post by: The Map Cartographer on February 15, 2019, 06:57:22 AM
I made a Fan-made expansion and is ready for download but needs feedback hope map goes well...